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Opinion on Programming

That1Gamer89's Avatar That1Gamer899/16/14 11:43 pm
9/17/2014 10:54 pm
CoderBuddy's Avatar CoderBuddy
Okay so I posted this as my skype mood: Once I start "fully" learning Python I will work on a game.

Once I did this guy says this:
http://gyazo.com/9bc6bbee605adf21eeef6a878f563e53

So what should I learn for making games/programs C, C++, C# or Python?
Posted by That1Gamer89's Avatar
That1Gamer89
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1
09/17/2014 10:47 pm
Level 13 : Journeyman Architect
karolakkolo123
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BTW I need your help Paril, talking about the cores in the processor, I heard that you can assign for example minecraft to specific cores, to make your FPSs be a LOT bigger, but I have Windows 8.1 and it doesn't work like on win7, and I can't find it on internet, everywhere it says, how to do it on Windows 7, but Windows 8.1 is mostly different, and I don't see options like there anywhere to assign the cores. (If you need this info I have i7 I think it is -4500U or -5400U processor. I couldn't send you this message on PM, IDK y, so I wrote it here, since you are active on this topic
1
09/17/2014 10:41 pm
Level 75 : Legendary Gent
Zitzabis
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Oh when programmers bicker about what language is better. XD

Face it, they all have their pros and they all have their cons. Some are better for 3D games, some are better for 2D games, some are better for programs, some are better for web development. It's fairly simple.
1
09/17/2014 10:37 pm
Level 13 : Journeyman Architect
karolakkolo123
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@up (@Paril)

I agree with you that you program in C++, but of course not for start, it is complex for beginners. I said, I quitted for 2 years, because I couldn't understand pointers, arrays, and functions, but as I sais, as I progressed through the easiest to medium to C++, I finally understanded everyting at one glance. That's why experience, and step-by-step learning is important, to understand everything clearly.

P.S. I still hate pointers even if they are very helpful xD
1
09/17/2014 10:39 pm
Level 34 : Artisan Dragon
Find Them Creepers
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I'm not technically a beginner as I know a few scripting and programming languages, but C++ doesn't really seem as difficult as everyone portrays it to be... or maybe I'm in the calm before the storm...
1
09/17/2014 10:29 pm
Level 13 : Journeyman Architect
karolakkolo123
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Most people say C++ is for beginners, and it is fine for start......well, not really. C++ may seem easy at the beginning, but its complexness is multiplied with each next thing you learn.

I recommend to at the beginning just play with Batch files, because they teach you very very very basics of programming. Then you can procceed to AutoIt3. It is not well known Scripting Language, but it teaches you to understand more programming concepts. Then you can procceed either to Java and then C++, or straight to C++. If you understand from AutoIt3 how functions, and arrays work, you can play with it more, and more, but this last step listed is more serious. It teaches you real Programming Language, and you have to be ready understanding many things you learned previously, to accept easy the knowledge of C++. I started with C++ 3 years ago without any experience, and it was so hard I quitted for 2 years. It is because, I couldn't understand hard things like pointers, arrays, and functions at first, but when I went through Batch to AutoIt3 to C++, I was ready to accept the challenge. And just because I progressed step by step, I could easily learn what are pointers, etc. And now I can make 3D games with engines.

Conslucion: Accepting knowledge is hard withoud prior knowledge (past experience), that's why they teach you in school step by step, year by year harder, to make you understand the hard things. Because imagine first grade teaching complex chemistry. The 1stgraders would not understand this, and they would cry, and probably never go to shool again!

It is just my opinion, but that's how I can program advanced today.

@edit

You can also after you know many things in AutoIt3, you can go to C++, but also to JAva, or Visual Basic, both are more serious languages, but C++ is hardest and more original. But java is kind of more stupid, because you are stuck with only one look of you Graphical User Interface, but in VB and C++, you can design your own, but of course C++ is harder, and includes more features, however it is complex, and Object part of it is 2 times more. But I still stay with opinion before editing this post.
1
09/17/2014 10:54 pm
Level 17 : Journeyman Zombie
CoderBuddy
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I understand what you're saying but in my opinion you're wasting time by not just learning c++ in the first place.
1
09/17/2014 10:02 pm
Level 34 : Artisan Dragon
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Unlocked
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UnlockedDon't learn C#. If you want to go with C#, learn Java. I hate Java with a passion but at least Java won't keep you within the Windows environment.

C# doesn't. You can use it with unity as well as some other frameworks.

Python, C#, and Java all fit into the interpreted language circle which means it has to use something else to read each line line by line.

Uh... no it's not. C# and Java are compiled. Python is interpreted.

Python is fun and easy to use and is enjoyable (no one wants to say it but everyone will agree, Java is like eating shoe leather and everyone hates it.

1. Python syntax is like a rock
2. Speak for yourself about Java. Java is the most fun language I have ever used. It's powerful, easy, and uses clear, concise syntax.

Everything there is true for the most part, but I don't understand what you mean about the syntax. Python's is like a rock? Java's is clear and concise?

According to the official website, this is hello world in Java-

class HelloWorldApp {
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("Hello World!");
}
}


Yet this is Python:

print("Hello World!")

I wonder which is clearer and more to the point

The hello world line is System.out.println("Hello World!");
Everything else is just initialization. This makes java far more powerful because of it's class structure.

How does it make it more powerful? Almost every modern language has OOP, just saying. Python has classes as well as functions which are reusable chunks of code.
1
09/17/2014 10:01 pm
Level 75 : Legendary Gent
Zitzabis
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Unlocked
The hello world line is System.out.println("Hello World!");
Everything else is just initialization. This makes java far more powerful because of it's class structure.

*cough*
<html>
<p>Hello World!</p>
</html>
This makes so much more sense.

Yes...I'm being difficult.
1
09/17/2014 9:59 pm
Level 28 : Expert Dragon
Unlocked
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UnlockedDon't learn C#. If you want to go with C#, learn Java. I hate Java with a passion but at least Java won't keep you within the Windows environment.

C# doesn't. You can use it with unity as well as some other frameworks.

Python, C#, and Java all fit into the interpreted language circle which means it has to use something else to read each line line by line.

Uh... no it's not. C# and Java are compiled. Python is interpreted.

Python is fun and easy to use and is enjoyable (no one wants to say it but everyone will agree, Java is like eating shoe leather and everyone hates it.

1. Python syntax is like a rock
2. Speak for yourself about Java. Java is the most fun language I have ever used. It's powerful, easy, and uses clear, concise syntax.

Everything there is true for the most part, but I don't understand what you mean about the syntax. Python's is like a rock? Java's is clear and concise?

According to the official website, this is hello world in Java-

class HelloWorldApp {
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("Hello World!");
}
}


Yet this is Python:

print("Hello World!")

I wonder which is clearer and more to the point

The hello world line is System.out.println("Hello World!");
Everything else is just initialization. This makes java far more powerful because of it's class structure.
1
09/17/2014 8:39 pm
Level 17 : Journeyman Zombie
CoderBuddy
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why not learn c++?

I have been for over a year, and it's not that hard. People say it's a terrible language to first start our with but it's not. Yes, it does get to advanced topics, but after you learn low memory stuff you can transfer it to other programming languages!

My second point is c++ has been around for a long time. There's tons of libraries and game engines that you can use to make your game. I've already tried out sfml and sdl so I would suggest those for 2d games. C++ is also very fast and memory efficient. If your wondering where to learn it, I would suggest thenewboston's tutorials. He does a great job at sticking to the point and making sure you understand the material.
1
09/17/2014 8:23 pm
Level 36 : Artisan Blockhead
Woodilicious
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UnlockedDon't learn C#. If you want to go with C#, learn Java. I hate Java with a passion but at least Java won't keep you within the Windows environment.

C# doesn't. You can use it with unity as well as some other frameworks.

Python, C#, and Java all fit into the interpreted language circle which means it has to use something else to read each line line by line.

Uh... no it's not. C# and Java are compiled. Python is interpreted.

Python is fun and easy to use and is enjoyable (no one wants to say it but everyone will agree, Java is like eating shoe leather and everyone hates it.

1. Python syntax is like a rock
2. Speak for yourself about Java. Java is the most fun language I have ever used. It's powerful, easy, and uses clear, concise syntax.

Everything there is true for the most part, but I don't understand what you mean about the syntax. Python's is like a rock? Java's is clear and concise?

According to the official website, this is hello world in Java-

class HelloWorldApp {
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("Hello World!");
}
}


Yet this is Python:

print("Hello World!")

I wonder which is clearer and more to the point


Lol I was just about to say something like this...
Not that I know a lot of programming languages, but I learned the basics of Python a few years ago, and I only recently learned the basics of Java... My first thought in Java was "Why must be printing a sentence be so complicated?!" lol.
1
09/17/2014 7:38 pm
Level 28 : Expert Dragon
Unlocked
Unlocked's Avatar
Don't learn C#. If you want to go with C#, learn Java. I hate Java with a passion but at least Java won't keep you within the Windows environment.

C# doesn't. You can use it with unity as well as some other frameworks.

Python, C#, and Java all fit into the interpreted language circle which means it has to use something else to read each line line by line.

Uh... no it's not. C# and Java are compiled. Python is interpreted.

Python is fun and easy to use and is enjoyable (no one wants to say it but everyone will agree, Java is like eating shoe leather and everyone hates it.

1. Python syntax is like a rock
2. Speak for yourself about Java. Java is the most fun language I have ever used. It's powerful, easy, and uses clear, concise syntax.
1
09/17/2014 7:55 pm
Level 34 : Artisan Dragon
Find Them Creepers
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Everything there is true for the most part, but I don't understand what you mean about the syntax. Python's is like a rock? Java's is clear and concise?

According to the official website, this is hello world in Java-

class HelloWorldApp {
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("Hello World!");
}
}


Yet this is Python:

print("Hello World!")

I wonder which is clearer and more to the point
1
09/17/2014 6:26 pm
Level 39 : Artisan Taco
monte carino
monte carino's Avatar
Learn C# and use Unity Game Engine. You can't go wrong and there is a TON of tutorials and documentation for it. Probably the easiest thing you can do in my opinion. it only took me a few weeks to learn c# and Most of Unitys functions.

Unity is great for 3d Games,2d games, and pretty much any application you can make

Steams #3 free game was made by a 16 year old kid in unity!

By the way, applications you make in Unity can be used on Mac,PC,Windows,consoles,many phones
1
09/17/2014 5:52 pm
Level 33 : Artisan Dragon
The_Big_Dish
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I don't mean to steal your question but I have one that is similar. I am a beginner programmer like the OP so I don't have much experience but I am interested in making games. I keep hearing very conflicting things about every computing language (even in this thread) and it just is leaving me confused about what is the best to use.

Is there an *actual* answer to the question or is it subjective? and in the end will it actually impact what you make or will it only impact in minimal ways?
1
09/17/2014 7:54 pm
Level 1 : New Miner
DrDominodog
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It is a rather subjective question, but as most have said here Python has a lot of support (especially for making games). If your learning to program it is best to learn a language like PHP, Python, Perl, Ruby, and so forth, that are easy to read (from the perspective of a new programmer). I would recommend stating with Python just because of the support and examples available, and that there is windows downloads available.
1
09/17/2014 6:20 pm
Level 57 : Grandmaster Programmer
bmanrules
bmanrules's Avatar
It's definitely subjective. Different languages are useful for different things, some can be used for similar things. At the end of the day it's down to the kind of game you wish to make, the tools you want to use (if any), and how much of what you do you want to apply to other areas of programming. Most concepts in programming transfer between languages, albeit with slightly different syntax.
1
09/17/2014 6:50 pm
Level 33 : Artisan Dragon
The_Big_Dish
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Yeah thats what I was thinking.
1
09/17/2014 2:30 am
Level 12 : Journeyman Engineer
jjcyalater
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I'm currently learning java and have found it really easy to pick up.
I have made a few test 2d games but would not recommend it for 3d (Unless you're notch)
1
09/17/2014 2:12 am
Level 6 : Apprentice Miner
FCCAGut
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Don't learn C#. If you want to go with C#, learn Java. I hate Java with a passion but at least Java won't keep you within the Windows environment. When you have to focus solely on a platform with a particular language regardless of hardware that's not programming, it's developing. I recommend Python when people are starting out because it's easy and gives you an idea of how programs work. It's a lot easier with Python to understand the difference between statements and functions and contrary to popular belief due to it's ease of learning, is powerful. It takes a lot of use with high-level access with files and interaction with the OS and makes that extremely easy.

Python, C#, and Java all fit into the interpreted language circle which means it has to use something else to read each line line by line. Making things slower but keeps things easier. Python is fun and easy to use and is enjoyable (no one wants to say it but everyone will agree, Java is like eating shoe leather and everyone hates it. You write a bunch of code and it makes you feel more productive and makes managers happy.) Python is great for scripting and also can be used in websites. Websites shouldn't ever be your main focus if you want to be taken seriously, always focus on programs ran by users directly.

C/C++ for games as these are not only compiled languages, but they can directly access memory, C in particular. Don't think C# is part of C, it isn't. C++ was first called "C with classes". C# is just Microsoft being Microsoft. Compiled languages load the entire program (not line by line) into the CPU and converted into a machine specific language using a compiler. Makes things much faster. Only downside is these are a lot harder than interpreted languages.

I do want to give you some advice, I hope you don't think of C/C++ as your first language or you will probably bash your head in. I recommend Python (you can use pygame to make games). If you do go the C++ route I HIGHLY recommend DO NOT USE WINDOWS! You will fall into the beginner trap of using windows.h Use Mac or a Linux based OS or you will be limiting your potential and next thing you know you may "think" C++, but the only thing you will know how to compile in is Visual Studios on Windows. C++ is MUCH better than that so don't waste it on just one platform. Learn all of the platforms as well as hardware as they come to you and never take the easy way out.


This is the guideline I like to follow so you can pick and choose base on my point of views. Programming can be very fun and rewarding but you also want to have fun with it. Don't do it for the money but do it because you enjoy doing it.



In sort of a "reply" to that person in the pic, some shell scripts (sometimes more than that) in Linux based operating systems use Python. Python makes things quick and easy and while C or C++ is more faster and efficient, they aren't the easiest thing to use when in a hurry and you want something done right then and there. Work smarter not harder.
1
09/17/2014 2:28 am
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
Paril
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C# works on Linux and Mac machines. There's a whole framework devoted to CIL on those systems. It's even used as a scripting language for many cross-platform applications, like the Unity Engine. There's no need to misinform.

However, you should be wary if you use WinForms - that is unlikely to be ported properly via Mono. You may want to use the GTK+, qt or similar UI wrappers if you want to do cross platform.

C# and Java are not interpreted - they are JIT. Python is interpreted, line by line; C# and Java are compiled at runtime to your native machine code. There's a huge difference.
1
09/17/2014 5:25 pm
Level 6 : Apprentice Miner
FCCAGut
FCCAGut's Avatar
Mono is crap. CLI is bytecode, which means it's interpreted. You get your facts straight. Java can be compiled, under certain circumstances, but also runs in bytecode. Java's a mess. Java also requires the use of the JVM, AKA Java's interpreter. If you're scripting you're also using an interpreter. Idiot.


I wouldn't expect anything less from a Minecraft Java "programmer".
1
09/17/2014 10:32 pm
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
Paril
Paril's Avatar
Whether it's "crap" or not in your opinion is irrelevant - a lot of applications use it and it is a fairly competent implementation.

Bytecode is not always interpreted. Lua is interpreted bytecode - C# and Java are JIT, which is not the same as interpretation (hence why there's a completely separate project for JIT for Lua, because they aren't the same thing). That's one of the strong points of Java and CIL is that they can be fairly quick due to JIT compilation. JavaScript also does the same on, say, the Google V8 engine; it is compiled directly to native instructions (on supported architecture; that's why CIL doesn't support PowerPC or ARM as-is), and also why you can easily mix native calls between C# and C/C++ with little to no indirection or wrapping.

Scripting does also not imply interpretation. I have no idea where you get that from. Any language can be made JIT and converted to native instructions at any time. Like I said, JavaScript does this in many implementations; it may be a scripting language but it is also JIT in these environments, not interpreted like Python is.

I'm not a Minecraft Java "programmer". I barely use Java. I have a long background in C/C++ and, eventually, C#. You needn't go straight to personal insults.
1
09/17/2014 1:06 am
Level 52 : Grandmaster Programmer
phase
phase's Avatar
Javascript is a good one for starting out, and you can easily put it on websites. Plus it's easy to move onto other languages.
1
09/17/2014 1:22 am
Level 28 : Expert Dragon
Unlocked
Unlocked's Avatar
good lead-in to C#/java/actionscript/whatever too. That's how I learned em.
1
09/17/2014 12:40 am
Level 34 : Artisan Dragon
Find Them Creepers
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Python is great. That guy said you probably won't be using it in 10 years, but python was made 23 years ago and is still being updated, supported, etc.,

It's an extremely user friendly and beginner friendly language, and I highly recommend learning it. I know a decent bit, so if you ever need help, try asking me.

As you were saying, python is generally not good for making games. It certainly can be done, but it's an awkward process. As for an antivirus, I'm not sure, but probably not considering it's interpreted. Don't let this get you from learning it, though. It is, as I said, easy to learn and user friendly. You should learn it to nail core concepts before you move on. If you really like it, stick with it.

Notable games written in python:
Civilization IV
EVE Online

One more thing: your friend is wrong. Python isn't useless. That's like saying C++ is useless because we have C# now. A decent path of learning would be something like this:

(If you want) Web-based language -> Python -> C#, Java, C++, etc.,
1
09/17/2014 1:01 am
Level 28 : Expert Dragon
Unlocked
Unlocked's Avatar
The thing about python is that no other languages are like it and so if you use it, it won't help you out with any other programming languages.
1
09/17/2014 1:05 am
Level 34 : Artisan Dragon
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Sure it will. It has strings, object oriented programming, variables, loops, functions, libraries, operators, etc. It has everything any other language has, maybe just defined differently, but it's still the same idea.

Besides, I know a bit of C++ and it's not exactly a massive, drastic change. Adding some different key words and curvy brackets isn't too difficult.
1
09/17/2014 12:30 am
Level 75 : Legendary Gent
Zitzabis
Zitzabis's Avatar
I agree with his order of learning as it helps build your confidence. But as for game programming, it really depends on the game you want to create.
C# is good for 3D games
Flash or ActionScript is good for web.
etc....

Just research all of them and choose the one that suits your needs.
1
09/17/2014 12:10 am
Level 28 : Expert Dragon
Unlocked
Unlocked's Avatar
I would say C#. If you are planning on making a minecraft mod, C# is so similar to java it isn't even funny... actually it kinda is but I think you get what I mean. Python is generally not used for professional games. C++ is good for making games but very hard and requires a ton of setup... like even more than java or C# (from what I hear). No idea about C but I don't think anyone actually uses it anymore so I would suggest not using that.

So basically, go with C# or Java. They aren't super hard to learn and are very useful for making (or modding) games.

That said, a lot of languages (python excluded) are similar and you can pick pretty much any used language to get a headstart on other ones.
1
09/16/2014 11:56 pm
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
Paril
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All programming knowledge is useful. Concepts are transferable between languages. Understanding those concepts will make moving forward easier.

Getting too used to the syntax of one language might trip you up when you try to learn another language though. It's also worth noting that the libraries are generally completely different.
1
09/17/2014 12:05 am
Level 1 : New Miner
That1Gamer89
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Thanks for the tip Paril.
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