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EXP, Levels and All That Put in a Rant

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avatar Exurbia
Retired Moderator
Level 60 : High Grandmaster Elf
1,197
Experience points. What are they? What do they mean? What purpose do they serve? Why have they corrupted this community? Those are a few questions that Io ve heard from others, and myself. Experience points are a type of point you gain them from getting views, diamonds, comments, etc on your submissions. They are used for leveling up. But they have corrupted the website we know as Planet Minecraft. People have grown hungry for these points, and for popularity. It has lead to stealing of popular submissions, spamming of submissions, low quality work, and just plain begging for diamonds. There are also some good things that have come from these points, but most of the outcomes have been bad.



People have gotten this thought in their heads that EXP is all that matters. They just want to be popular and be a high level. Some make multiple accounts, so they can diamond, view, comment and favorite their own submissions. Multi-accounting is against the rules, of course. So, thato s a rule broken already. They also beg for diamonds on their submissions, or run around the forums and chat asking people to give them diamonds. There is also another o techniqueo people use to get diamonds and subs. They ask people o diamond 4 diamond?o or o sub 4 sub?o . Now that is just stupid. Not only is it against the rules, it also makes you look desperate. Now, we cano t stop these things from happening, but the mods can ban the multi-accounters and also warn the o x 4 x?o people. I just dono t understand why people do this.


Every time I look around the skins section, I see low quality work. Actually, I dono t go in the skins section anymore, because the amount of low quality skins is astounding. People need to be creative with their skins and not make something that has been done twenty times. o Derivative work is basically taking a pre-existing idea or work and basing your work on it. For example: you take a character from a popular anime series and make a skin from it, basing its likeness and features to match the character as close as possible. The work itself is done from scratch, so originality applies. Legally it's still considered derived work.o (o Quoted from Dr Thresho s blog on originality) This shows exactly my point. You are being creative, but you are still making something that has been done twenty times. But there are also unoriginal skins like, o Block Mano . Just a skin with two colors, or o Cute Girlo , a girl skin that isno t special at all. If we created original characters, the skin section would also be more exciting. There is also shading too, but I wono t go into depth with that. Skins look nice with shading, and youo d get more views from it. Some of you who visit the chat regularly have probably seen me complaining about all the o How to skino blogs. That is just me being me, but they are actually very helpful, and show different shading techniques. Now we are getting a little off topic, but you get the idea, right? People upload low quality skins to get EXP easily.


Stealing has become a big o qualityo of the Planet Minecraft community. I cano t go five minutes without seeing something stolen. Whether ito s a skin, texturepack or mod. I always see the Honeydew skin, or LB Photo Realism, and even Too Many Items stolen every day. There is an easy way to get rid of them, that little red flag button under favorite on the submission. Of course, the mods wono t get it taken down right away, because they get about 800 reported submissions a day.o Being a Site Moderator is hard work, Sometimes we have to moderate submissions that can get up to nearly 800 a day in the reports.o (-Quoted from SoulStealero s blog on being a moderator). That just goes to show how much we break the rules and steal. That is just astounding, but again, you cano t prevent it. Only the mods can, if you flag submissions. People do stupid stuff for EXP.


Then youo ve got the spammers. They spam the same submission over and over again, or they abuse the update log on their submissions. These people just want the easy EXP from the views and submissions. I dono t know why youo d want to be famous for posting one thing over and over again? But I guess some people are just weird like that. Io ve reported one person who uploaded the same texturepack eight times! Ito s just unbelievable to see what people will do just for pointless EXP. Io ve also reported people who have abused the update log. They abuse it by updating it when they didno t update their submission, so it go to the recently updated list, then they get more views. You should all know what more views means by now, it means more EXP! Of course, like all the other things Io ve mentioned so far, spamming and abusing the update log is against the rules. And yes, the mods can take care of that too. People brake rules for EXP. Insane much?


Now youo re all probably wondering why Io m saying EXP is useless and pointless. It is virtual points that dono t do anything. Well, they do some things, like leveling you up when you reach a certain amount, but what do they help you gain in real life? They wono t buy you that new Xbox game you want, they wono t get that girl you like to notice you, they wono t help your sick grandmother get better, and they definitely wono t get you anywhere in life. EXP is useless, and why should it mean anything to you? I stopped caring about EXP long ago. Now please note this scale that I have created to show you how useless EXP is to you:


KBWrmjpg



But Io m sort of contradicting myself, areno t I now? EXP isno t completely useless. Some people set goals with experience, and the creative ones become popular for good work. So, not everything that results from EXP is bad.


People love setting goals, and some of their goals are to reach a certain level. You can find peopleo s goals on their profile somewhere in their bio. Goals are a great idea, because when you achieve one it makes you happy. Some people have told me that it also boosts confidence. But, then again, some people break rules to get EXP to achieve their goals faster. But leto s not look at the bad side, and focus on the goods.


People also strive to get ranks. They really want one rank, so theyo ll try getting EXP to get to the level to unlock it. I was talking to one person in the chat, and they were wondering if there was a certain rank. I told them you had to get to whatever level it was to unlock it, so they made it their goal to get this rank. Also, ranks mean that levels areno t completely pointless, they are a type of award, I suppose.


You also become popular from a high level as well. Most of the high leveled people are that level because they do great work that gets recognized by many. I was discussing the whole advertising submissions thing with Leostereo one day, and we both advertise some of our submissions in chat. We both agreed to the fact that we advertise it because we want people to acknowledge our work, and we areno t in it for the EXP. I advertise my blogs because I want people to gain something from reading it, so that is why I only write a blog when ito s absolutely necessary.


There is one more topic that Io m going to touch up on, because I think ito s completely necessary in a blog about levels. I have seen many people ranting about how the higher levels treat the lower levels like dirt. Just because they are lower levels means that you can push them around. They may be newer members, or may not be as skilled as you, but they are human beings too. Io ve never actually witnessed a higher level being mean to some lower leveled person, but Io ve heard from people. So treat them with respect please.



EXP can be good, and bad. But ito s mainly bad. People break the rules just to get these virtual pointless points. But, there are good things too, like goals and such. Most people spend their time on trying to get easy EXP, when they could be making something amazing that gets them loads of EXP. But, EXP is pointless, and people need to get that thought in their heads.
CreditDr Thresh, SoulStealer
Tags

1
07/24/2012 10:06 am
Level 16 : Journeyman Ranger
phatinventor
I have not seen that yet, but I still agree.

Oh and portal guns are very useful.
1
07/24/2012 6:11 am
Level 18 : Journeyman Dragon
Tom
*fix* People break rules for EXP. Last line before the paragraph above the picture (middle) with the portal gun. Not brake like a car brake xD
1
05/26/2012 1:16 pm
Level 17 : Journeyman Engineer
ndnprct3
I WANT A PORTAL GUN SO BADLY!
1
05/25/2012 7:06 pm
Level 22 : Expert Narwhal
supremewand250
I agree with everything. Especially the fact that portal guns are useful XD lol.
1
05/18/2012 7:38 pm
Level 79 : Legendary War Lord
Alvtron
Agreed to the fullest. The experience points won't make any difference with anything, whats so ever. People, please have some self-respect!
1
05/18/2012 5:37 am
Level 49 : Master Ninja
LOLDA
lol portal is useful XD
1
05/17/2012 11:04 pm
Level 22 : Expert Network
crimsoncreeper13
Need portal gun O_O
1
05/10/2012 2:00 pm
Level 3 : Apprentice Miner
helicfire777
Yeah. People that have a higher level tend to have more attention. This makes people who want attention more difficult to get it. And there is also the fact that like every 5 minutes average (maybe even more) there is a new submission so other submissions get pushed back and because people does not search often in pages, submissions that get pushed back get very little attention. You could consider that low quality works is just trolling because evryone knows that low quality works just fill up the site and causes the effect that i mentioned erarlier (about submissions getting pushed back). This affects especially people who put more work into their submissions. That is the goal (probably) of people doing that.
1
04/26/2012 8:34 am
Level 46 : Master Gent
Jetthebuizel
This, this was worth reading. I totally agree with this! Glad I took time to read it.
1
04/24/2012 10:07 pm
Level 8 : Apprentice Miner
Rucka
I completely agree, I got so mad for exp I was stealing skins from everywhere. I soon reached level 23, I finally decided I had gone mad. I ended up deleted my post and going back down to level 2. Exp is just waste of what some people call their time.
1
04/24/2012 3:43 pm
Level 28 : Expert Pixel Painter
c_blair
The flip side of this is that one can post good work on an obscure theme and it will attract very little attention. This may encourage some (though by far not the majority, of course) to create less original skins, if only to generate attention for their account and recognition for their work as a whole.
Stolen work and consistent low-quality posts are indeed saddening, but so is a lack of appreciation. When I got my first positive comment a while back, the feeling of helping someone inspired me to create more skins that may have taken a longer time to put out otherwise, if at all. After all, everybody likes to be appreciated, and while some may take it to the extreme, it's still a valid cause of skin submission in general. :)
1
04/24/2012 2:37 pm
Level 22 : Expert Miner
dutchyblade
I would immediately leave this site if they took down the exp system. You know why? I worked fucking hard to get on place 42-43 most exped players, and if they just take it away I'ma post a rage quit blog and leave the site. PMC would suck without exp, they should never take it away, even if there is alot of exp abuse.
1
04/24/2012 7:01 pm
Level 56 : Grandmaster Sailor
IronToastBot
Hey calm down, if xp means that much to you, then maybe you should post that blog asap.. so you can get more views and thus more xp.
1
04/25/2012 6:56 am
Level 22 : Expert Miner
dutchyblade
ofc u dont care about exp, because it has no point for you. But for me it has. My work is getting knows cus people look at my page, cus I'm higher level, cus I have more exp. Ad I'm certaily not the only one who loves exp, this site would just have no point without it
1
04/25/2012 9:56 am
Level 56 : Grandmaster Sailor
IronToastBot
I understand why you care about it and I figured out that higher level means more views a while ago, but I wouldn't throw a tantrum if it was removed. The site would do fine, and so would you. I have seen your amazing stuff before and it's quality with well executed presentation. If the system was removed, people would be forced to look for good quality, and people who uploaded the same thing 5 times for levels would be overlooked, because suddenly, a few hundred views on a dirt house project and a handful of downloads on some unoriginal skins doesn't add up to a staggering level 50 that tricks people into thinking that high level = high quality.
Your stuff pops out among the spam right? So why are you worried?
1
04/25/2012 10:22 am
Level 22 : Expert Miner
dutchyblade
Hmm, you are actually right, but the thing is, I love to have some goals on this site. For example getting to level 70. but yeah, I haven't thought about this like you said, removing the exp would reduce the spam, especially in the skin section. If the mods remove the exp, I think it would be better for the site, but less fun for some members :P
1
04/24/2012 11:16 am
Level 30 : Artisan Cake
Geppetto
I really can't understand your view on the skin-section...
I mean, nobody made perfect skins when he started.
I think it's right and important to say NO to stolen or mixed skins, but that so called "low-quality work" is very important for beginners.
All the other stuff is right.
1
05/06/2012 1:36 am
Level 20 : Expert Artist
Clui
Not true at all, if you make a skin that has no shading, just don't post it, just practice applying shading to your skins. Then when your good enough, post your skins.
1
04/24/2012 9:36 am
Level 19 : Journeyman Pixel Puncher
Creeper Hugs U
New EXP system. Nuff said.
1
04/24/2012 7:29 am
Level 35 : Artisan Musician
Team_Subspace
This blog/rant, it's full of fact. You have no idea how difficult it is to look through the submissions here anymore. I remember when I first came here, things weren't as bad.
1
04/24/2012 2:31 am
Level 58 : Grandmaster Dragonborn
1UPMiner
Well i got were i am now because i set Targets to get to level 10-12-15 Etc...
Taking it down now would be very annoying and even more people would leave
1
04/24/2012 9:32 am
Level 19 : Journeyman Pixel Puncher
Creeper Hugs U
Same here. New exp system...a go go :P
1
04/23/2012 10:55 pm
Level 14 : Journeyman Lumberjack
m057h31n0u5
While I do agree with you on some of the points made in this post, I don't think that you're entirely correct. I mean, the people who abuse the EXP system just for recognition are only going to get a few seconds of fame, whereas people like Block_Fortress or lynchyinc might not be where they are today without it, despite the amazing work that they do. Then again, a level one shouldn't really be talking about an EXP rant. :3
1
04/23/2012 10:49 pm
Level 73 : Legendary Robot
Eastonium
Very well said. Even I have abused the update log thing a couple times. :P won't ever be doing that again.
1
04/23/2012 10:20 pm
Level 60 : High Grandmaster Necromancer
Terzaerian
My response:

http://www.planetminecraft.com/blog/counter-rant-exp-levels-and-all-that-put-in-a-rant-by-jgsampso/

(Not folded into a post here as people have looked askew at my bolding/italics practices in the past in such threads before)
1
04/23/2012 9:29 pm
Level 55 : Grandmaster Architect
MickyP
Experience points are important because thet are an incentive to upload your projects on this website. If there was no points or rank system I would not be using this website. The same applies to the real world; when I work, I expect to get paid for my labour. And if I don't get paid, then I don't work. It is simple, and the same works for PMC.
1
04/23/2012 9:36 pm
Level 55 : Grandmaster Architect
MickyP
The fact that people abuse this system out of greed for points is merely a symptom of the process. It is just like a Capitalist society; there are people willing to steal, corrupt and abuse the system out of geeed; just look at the 2008 GFC. This applies to PMC as well (except money = points in thius case). Why does this apply in PMC aswel? It is simple, because PMC is used by and run by REAL PEOPLE. And people, just like in the real world, are selfish, proud and willing to do anything to get what they want, whether it's money or experience points on PMC. In other words, you can't do anything aobut it, it part of our nature. However, there was one thing that tried to fix this problem, it's called Communism, and it failed.
1
04/23/2012 6:32 pm
Level 52 : Grandmaster Turtle
Turtleshell_Luck
I only like levels cuz I love having a title that defines me. If we get rid of levels, that is also some people's source of motivation- GONE, but so will the noobs who only care about level... it is quite a paradox, and unsolvable equation. I honestly think Cyprezz should hold a community vote like he did with the downvote.
1
04/23/2012 10:42 pm
Level 60 : High Grandmaster Elf
Exurbia
But if he did, everyone would want to keep the levels, and it would change nothing.
1
04/23/2012 6:12 pm
Level 17 : Journeyman Pixel Painter
LeBroham
What sneeze said. :3
1
04/23/2012 4:00 pm
Level 6 : Apprentice Taco
nobodyimportant123
I very much agree with you. I see this happening to people all time "Hmmm, mod took my skin down because it was unoriginial,crappy,steve copy,etc. I'ma just post it again every time a moderator takes it down."
1
04/23/2012 3:58 pm
Level 36 : Artisan Network
Bethamez
It makes a lot of sense
1
04/23/2012 3:27 pm
Level 35 : Artisan Dragon
Clue
Good job!
Glad it got out, unlike some similar "rants".
1
04/23/2012 10:41 pm
Level 60 : High Grandmaster Elf
Exurbia
Thanks :3
1
04/23/2012 2:07 pm
Level 67 : High Grandmaster Hero
Sneeze7
I like exp because it gives me a goal. When i shrucked at skinning, I kept making skins so that I could sometime become one of the best. But then I had an appifeny(spelling), and i realised I stunk, so it was like a survival method for me to become good so that I can achieve my goals :)
1
04/23/2012 10:36 pm
Level 60 : High Grandmaster Elf
Exurbia
Well, like I said, it can be good too, just most of the outcomes are bad. :3
1
04/23/2012 5:05 pm
Level 49 : Master Pixel Puncher
Beast
Yea, there is also an upside of exp. Exp keeps of us motivated to upload stuff and stay active.
1
04/23/2012 4:30 pm
Level 36 : Artisan Chef
Lokibo
Sneeze, you are what inspired me to become a better skinner. Because of you, I would still be making 1 minute skins (even though it took me well over an hour to make my very first) skins. Now I add detail :D.
1
04/23/2012 1:57 pm
Level 32 : Artisan Spleefer
the_chuz
I want PMC to be like newgrounds
1
04/23/2012 9:01 am
Level 27 : Expert Spider Rider
Konauch
Great blog, I agree with everything.
Diamond for you! :D
1
04/23/2012 10:36 pm
Level 60 : High Grandmaster Elf
Exurbia
Thanks!
1
04/23/2012 8:56 am
Level 24 : Expert Explorer
Pownage
Apparently, update log abuse is so common now it is like a PMC trend. I find like more than 10 severs and projects every day that have update log abuse and took the time to give a vivid explanation in the flag report. ._.
1
04/23/2012 7:37 am
Level 81 : Elite Architect
lynchyinc
I agree and disagree with some of the things in this blog (opinions are a wonderful thing :P)

I agree that there are people who abuse the system through all of the methods you've listed and I flag them regularly as they bring down the quality of submissions, however most people strive for recognition and crave popularity, heck I admit I do :P

I think the main pro-point for xp is it shows how dedicated you are to the site and is a sort of reward, I worked hard to build up my levels through quality submissions and gave myself goals to achieve through this and I know a great deal of people want this as you say so yourself.

I love the pmc community and post all of my projects on here instead of the forums and minecraft related sites, and it's nice to get something back in terms of recognition. A 'high level' member in my eyes shows how dedicated a person has been to pmc and how hard they've worked to achieve that and they should act mature and guide new members of the site and help them out.

In conclusion - there will always be rule breakers and people who try to exploit systems in place for personal gain, on the whole though we're conditioned through capitalism and personal gain - achievements give us something to strive for and it's human nature to want to succeed, the xp system becomes a muse to this and hopefully encourages people to create quality submissions that will get them noticed, rather than beg for diamonds. I can look back now and say xp doesn't matter to me - however when i first joined the community it gave me a great deal of inspiration to reach level 20,30,40 etc and the main way in doing this is through quality submissions and building up subscribers who enjoy your work - not pointless updates and low quality submissions.

- possibly there is a better system than xp leveling, but I can't think of it - hopefully people will strive to upload great work and help out people in the pmc community at the same time.

*this has been a much longer reply than I anticipated - going to eat some pie now nomnom
1
04/23/2012 10:38 pm
Level 60 : High Grandmaster Elf
Exurbia
Wow, you made some good points there. I see what you're trying to say.
1
04/23/2012 3:29 pm
Level 64 : High Grandmaster Caveman
Ragnur Le Barbare
Great comment, and I second your opinion.

I was taught in biology that no matter what system is put in place, there will be cheaters to abuse it; so the best solution here would be to hope for people to be better human beings. Since it is unlikely to happen on the internet, I think the best option is to keep a system that rewards regular/quality-submitting people, such as the XP system we have now, instead of trying to suppress cheaters that will nonetheless find a way to come back.
1
04/23/2012 2:13 pm
Level 25 : Expert Network
Animatrix
And that is the story of the time everyone subbed to Lynch.
1
04/23/2012 7:26 am
Level 67 : High Grandmaster Ninja
Rakqoi
I don't care about XP, but I do care about people playing my maps/using my skins/TPs. That's why I advertize, why I want the reel, why I want diamonds. To help the submissions become more popular so more people will recognize and use them. Honestly, I could care less if my name is known or not, but I want my submissions to be. I love it when people play my maps, use my skins, or texture packs. That's the whole REASON I make them. Because if no one uses or plays with my submissions, what is the point? Why should I go out of my way for and hour... two hours... three days, to make something that two people use?

I don't know how "pure" or "right" people think I am, but I believe this is a good way to think. I also believe more people should think like this, and not be XP hungry.
1
04/23/2012 6:51 am
Level 40 : Master Network
ZaphodX
Great blog, well written, good length and even had some references in!

Personally I like XP for giving me something to works towards and some recognition and validation for content I submit. I probably wouldn't make and submit stuff without that incentive.
1
04/23/2012 10:41 pm
Level 60 : High Grandmaster Elf
Exurbia
Thanks Zaph! :D
1
04/23/2012 5:42 am
Level 22 : Expert Blacksmith
Pyyrhic
I got the feeling from this rant that you want the leveling system to be removed, to quote:"They are used for leveling up. But they have corrupted the website we
know as Planet Minecraft. People have grown hungry for these points, and
for popularity. It has lead to stealing of popular submissions,
spamming of submissions, low quality work"
This Statement is complete extrapolation, to imply that the leveling system is to blame for the low quality work, theft and spamming is a fact that you didn't back up with any evidence, and to confirm my side of the argument i will give evidence that the leveling system is one of the only thing that is holding this site together, and is one of the only things that is making PMC a unique and exciting site to join.

To the first point, proving the statement false, with evidence to back it up. to sum up your initial argument, that the EXP and leveling system are solely to blame for the Unoriginal, low quality and stolen skins, as stated before, this is an assumption which is... wrong. it can be seen that PMC is the only minecraft site which features a leveling system, yet there are far more sites than this. just taking a look at other skin site it is plain to see that they are suffering it worse than PMC, to name just a few: Skindex, Minersneedcoolshoes, freeminecraftskins.com. all of these have the same problem, even to a more concentrated degree, yet they do not have the Leveling system of PMC. it is easy and logical to draw the conclusion that the Leveling system has nothing to do with this problem. now to continue on with my other main point; the leveling system is helping PMC more than it seems.

It can be seen that the entirety of PMC's uniqueness is centered around the innovative way that it rewards people for good content, though as you explained that it is easily abused. but i digress, the main reason that PMC is still alive and running strong is because of this system, to put it on a purely theoretical plane it is possibly the best thing to have happened to this website. now to explain what i just said: The Leveling system is what makes PMC stand out, and hence it will on average attract more people, the more people who join, the higher the probability that people who put a lot of effort into their work, the higher the quality of the work will likely be, and the more people will go to chat, again heightening the possibility to meet awesome people. though this is purely theoretical, it is still a very valid point, and i think it is a fact that PMC has the highest quality work of all minecraft sites, which is all the work of the EXP and leveling system. also to weed the good from the bad the site even has a way of showing popular submissions, though possible to abuse, it lets the site sort the good submissions, which is likely due to the Leveling system attracting good creators, from the ever mounting amount of bad work, which is a by-product of the increased growth.

all in all the Blog raised valid points which were well explained and well thought out, yet the main point was not backed up by any evidence and was an extrapolation. to see another point i made, see EdgeDonkeys Blog on the leveling system

but a good blog anyway and if this wasnt what you were implying then i am sorry for wasting your time.

P.s i don't proof read so there is probably a lot of grammatical mistakes, please ignore them and see the point.
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