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Why we got rid of the downvote button.

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avatar DerpyKat
Level 41 : Master Sweetheart
597
Back in the old days of PMC, there wasn't just diamonds. There was also negative diamonds, bascially the 'downvote' version of a regular diamond. 

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However, in October of 2011, Cyprezz announced that the downvote button was revoked, saying that the button would simply cause hurt and, "I also believe knowing who downvoted our work would give birth to a new breed, Revenge Votes! I think requiring a reason is a complicated solution that in fact would cause more complex problems."

However, recently a large influx of blogs encouraging the return of this feature have been plentiful on the popular blogs list. As I've been reading these, I've found the same reasons over and over again about why they should be brought back, such as, "It would be easier to see who liked your work!" or "It'd be good criticism!". I've actually read Cyprezz's blog quite a while ago, and so when I started seeing so much support for it, then came the question.

Are we ready for it?

There has been quite a lot of complaining recently, saying that PMC altogether isn't exactly as 'well kempt' as it was when it first started off. I'm not criticizing the website in anyway to make offense, but in all honesty, I feel like the community just isn't ready for it. The way I see it, here are my reasons why we should just leave the button alone:

- Like Cyprezz stated, too much of a risk for 'revenge votes'

- Popular posters could easily be sent to the bottom by less popular, jealous members who wish to climb their way to the top in their place

- Each downvote doesn't give a reason why they did downvote, so more 'hate' then real constructive critiscism.

- Too many issues with stolen work, spam, etc.. It would simply add to the troubles this website is already facing


I believe that the best way to show your opinion on a post to comment on it. That's what comments are for right? And if you like it, leave a diamond, maybe comment too, and move on. It's not like you absolutely need the downvote button to show just how much you dislike the post! And really, if you don't like it, give your reasons, possibly help them improve. I would like as much as anyone to get constructive critisicm. 

It may not be a warm and fuzzy feeling when you get constructive criticism, but honestly, it's probably the better alternative.


Thanks to Cuddlez11 for helping me with ideas! Check out her skins, because she makes the cutest ones I've seen!

I'm sorry I haven't posted in a while. School's very busy for me.

Thank you so much for pop reel!
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Cool text FTW
No downvote! If u dont like it, then just ignore! Geez >.< Or at least leave some constructive critisism behind!

im glad i was here after the downvote button was removed....

lol, and youtube's rules arent so strict and emphasized either....no offense
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • April 8, 2014, 5:08 pm
None taken!
  • Jeanine
  • Level 7
  • Apprentice Explorer
  • March 4, 2014, 5:32 am
I remember when the downvote button was on planetminecraft. I just had joined, but it was quite a weird experience seeing it.
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 16, 2014, 10:38 am
I could imagine..
  • Forgelander
  • Level 13
  • Journeyman Explorer
  • March 3, 2014, 8:48 pm
I never want another downvote button.
I wasn't around during this, but I agree with you. If I really don't like a post, then I comment with the reason why and how they can improve it. Often, the person doesn't even take note of what I said and gives me a re-wording of the description to explain to me why it's passable, but whatever. I agree though, that people who are just starting out and don't really yet understand what's good content and what isn't might post something awful, thinking it's "cool", and they shouldn't really lose points for it, in the same way you can't scold a baby for crying for attention.
  • JamieGre
  • Level 39
  • Artisan Dolphin
  • March 2, 2014, 10:49 am
I would quite like to see a downvote button. But I think it would be better if it was anonymous. And I don't think it should be responsible for a loss of XP.
Anonimity would give trollers even more reason to downvote someone, simply because they know they can't be caught.  I've seen a website I visit regularly pretty much fall apart for that very reason...and now, only the forums section of it is still active.  Trollers (the intentionally harmful ones anyways) drive away users.  It's as simple as that.
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 2, 2014, 11:01 am
Being anonymous isn't gonna change the impact of it one bit. Revenge votes will still have value, and really, it doesn't give the least slightest constructive value. It's just a trolling tool that takes more than gives.
  • Camo7
  • Retired Moderator
  • Level 69
  • High Grandmaster Demolitionist
  • March 2, 2014, 9:55 am
As someone who remembers this, I have to point something out. There were no diamonds. There was an Up arrow and a Down arrow. Cyp changed the up arrow to diamonds to fit the Minecraft theme.
As for the merrits of having the downvote.... It was never anything but hurtful.
Effective criticism can't be given annonymously via a single variable. Comments are a far more effective means of doing so. And a huge problem was a downvote didn't go away unless the person who gave it returned to the submission and unvoted it.
My point is, the downvotes were removed for a reason, and only after a fair amount of thought. As someone who remembers them, I'm very glad they are gone. Its not a matter of PMC not being ready for downvotes, its a matter of broken and problematic systems being removed and replaced. This is progress, and progress involves making newer & better systems, not returning to old ones we know don't work.
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 2, 2014, 10:12 am
Thank you for pointing that out. I think that the main issue altogether was the button didn't do anything but hurt. There have been people who have said that we should prehaps have people disable downvotes on their submissions, but really, that would just cause more problems than fixing.
Although I wasn't around to see the real effects of downvotes, I've gotten a very good idea of them from Cyprezz's blog adressing downvotes, and I more or less agree with all of the main reasons why he took them down, as well as yours.
Maybe in the future a similar feature to downvotes might be avalible that won't rustle as many jimmies, but for now, I believe that comments are the best way of concerning one's displeasure and giving constructive criticism.
  • Sam
  • Retired Moderator
  • Level 56
  • Grandmaster Senpai
  • March 1, 2014, 5:15 pm
I'm happy it was removed, all of my crappy earlier works have 0 diamonds :P (If I were to un-diamond it would go down to -1)
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 1, 2014, 5:35 pm
Have you've seen that one Justin Bieber skin? Woo boy, good example of the abuse it used to bring.
  • TheViridian
  • Level 54
  • Grandmaster Meme
  • March 2, 2014, 3:45 am
I actually gave it a diamond to help get it out of the negative zone. :P
  • Sam
  • Retired Moderator
  • Level 56
  • Grandmaster Senpai
  • March 1, 2014, 5:49 pm
lol, -26 diamonds
  • DragonsDungeon
  • Level 66
  • High Grandmaster Button Pusher
  • March 2, 2014, 2:20 am
it actully used to be at like -80 or something that way
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 2, 2014, 9:12 am
Yeah, I remember when it had -101? Or something in that range. That skin really shows the kind of abuse that button would bring.
I feel bad for the dude who made that skin....come on!
  • DragonsDungeon
  • Level 66
  • High Grandmaster Button Pusher
  • March 2, 2014, 9:17 am
yep
October 2011? I think I was around before that. How do I not remember downvotes?
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 1, 2014, 4:50 pm
I wasn't around when there were downvotes, but I used the date of Cyprezz's original blog post concerning downvotes. 
If there was a different date involved, I'll adjust accordingly dearie. c:
You can if you want. I just don't remember. Back then I didn't use the site much for more than downloading. I didn't even comment or diamond much back then, so not much stuck into my memory. I feel like seeing "##% of people liked this, ##% didn't" rings a centimetre-wide bell that's rusty and at the edge of my memory, but that's it.
  • nolez15
  • Level 19
  • Journeyman Toast
  • March 1, 2014, 4:09 pm
This blog is clearly in reply to another popular blow made about readding it, or something.

I commented there a bunch of times, trying to iron-out the reasons we no longer have it, for people.



Thanks for making this, it's much-needed.
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 1, 2014, 4:50 pm
The pleasure was mine.
  • HeroGuy426
  • Level 36
  • Artisan Ninja
  • March 1, 2014, 1:20 pm
They should add back downvotes, but make it so that when you press either upvote or downvote, you have to type in an explanation that is over 30 characters long. People would spam though to get past that..... nvm
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 1, 2014, 1:59 pm
Too much work for one button, to boot.
Someone else thought of it being optional, which I like. Explanation: a PMCer chooses if there will be up/downvotes on their submission before submitting it.
Not sure that would benefit much...I mean, if a wannabe-troller (or bully) comes along and notices someone has the downvote disabled on their post, they could try and pull the 'you-can't-take-criticism' trick on said someone.
Damn trolls... -_-
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 1, 2014, 4:58 pm
I don't think that's a good idea for one reason and one only: If they wanted to add something in that they knew people would be supportive of, they wouldn't have to.
You've shon the light on logic in this case.
  • Ender_Eely
  • Level 37
  • Artisan Artist
  • March 1, 2014, 8:44 am
I'm so glad there isn't a down vote button. My crap would be filled to the brim with haters.
  • kottonkandy8
  • Level 10
  • Journeyman Network
  • March 1, 2014, 8:03 am
I think PMC runs smootly without it, and if somone doesn't like your content then it's as simple as don't diamond it :3
  • Masq
  • Forum Moderator
  • Level 35
  • Artisan Dolphin
  • March 1, 2014, 3:37 am
I definitely agree with this blog, and saying no to this whole 'downvote theory'. For one, if people don't enjoy someone's submission, they can comment, and nicely put some constructive criticism in; they are not forced in any way to diamond everything they see, like it or not. Secondly, the revenge vote is imminent, and I know that people will just 'troll' this button, without actually reading the submission. 

It is pointless really, if your work was downvoted, what would that tell you? That someone dislikes it? But why do they? How can you improve?


Great Blog - TT
  • arlodee
  • Level 20
  • Expert Princess
  • February 28, 2014, 11:49 pm
Why couldn't one make downvotes anonymous? this would remove the possibility of revenge votes, whilst also providing constructive criticism. Although, I assume it would be quite rare to receive proper constructive criticism, due to the amount of individuals who would simply give the uploader statements that aren't productive, others like to refer to them as "internet trolls"

Another point that you have already stated is that comments are a better solution. I'm not using this as an arguing point, i'm curious as to why diamonds are implemented if comments could be utilised for giving the uploader praise instead of utilising the diamond button in the top left corner of the screen.
  • Poke
  • Retired Moderator
  • Level 32
  • Artisan Pokemon
  • March 2, 2014, 6:48 am
Downvotes were actually originally anonymous, but it didn't really solve anything.
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 1, 2014, 1:58 pm
Diamonds are more of a way to make a post get to persay, front page. Diamonds are more about getting the diamonds in the rough rather than saying you like something. I'm not saying you can't diamond something unless you want it front page, but that's just my opinon on diamonds.

Whether they're anonymous or not doesn't mean the revenge vote doesn't mean anything. That just makes it more of a troll tool because noone knows who's downvoting their works, or why. Downvotes, other than just being a negative way to express one's dislike for a post, wouldn't provide any kind of constructive criticism. There's criticism, and constructive criticism. That button would barely apply to either and be more of a trolling tool, honestly.
  • arlodee
  • Level 20
  • Expert Princess
  • March 1, 2014, 3:06 pm
Yes, I brought that up in my statement also. Thank you for your insight.
  • Antirainbow
  • Level 47
  • Master Dragon
  • February 28, 2014, 10:27 pm
Downvote would just be trolled beyond belief
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 1, 2014, 1:56 pm
Exactly.
  • Zylerius
  • Level 28
  • Expert Network
  • February 28, 2014, 10:16 pm
I agree...With the people who hate people for god knows what reason [Not saying I believe in god or against him..its a figure of speech] it'd be a way to drag down people's good posts. Like, for the beginner skinners people go, "Gross." and not say how to improve. Just "Gross." I mean, they can't do better, and the only way they are going to learn is if you actually help them. Just saying, "Ew...Gross...This skin is horrible!" instead of saying, "Its nice for a beginner, but I recommend you do -blah blah blah- differently" and with the dislike button...Also, when your going to post to something cause you don't like it and your not going to say something critisizing...might as well say nothing, and ignore the post. You don't need to reply to it.
Downvote is a horrible idea.
  • Ludicrous
  • Site Moderator
  • Level 64
  • High Grandmaster Senpai
  • February 28, 2014, 9:16 pm
yes, counter the other blog :D
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • March 1, 2014, 2:08 pm
#rebel
  • AnimeFanFTW
  • Forum Moderator
  • Level 55
  • Grandmaster Senpai
  • February 28, 2014, 7:24 pm
Omg, derpykat made another thing.

I don't think PMC should make the downvote return. It's working fine without it.
  • DerpyKat
  • Level 41
  • Master Sweetheart
  • February 28, 2014, 7:27 pm
Agreed.

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