Since it's a bit hot in here, everyone should probably go and cool for a bit.

/lock

xenolovegoodOk so I've been thinking about the pledge of allegiance lately a lot. I am attending a middle school where the pledge happens every day. I never say it or put my hand on my heart, but I stand up. Recently, I've thought, Why stand up?
The reason why I don't like the pledge is not only because I'm an atheist and it assumes monotheism, but because I don't think their is liberty and justice in the us. Just ONE example: only 19 states allow gay marriage.

If you live in a different country I would still like your opinion because I want to know what other people think of the US.

If you don't like it don't say it. I am an atheist too, and I have never said the "under god" part in my entire life. It is not the law to say the Pledge of Allegiance every day, and you do have the freedom of speech, so you can choose what you want to say. Personally, I think the Pledge of Allegiance is archaic and should be reworked to our modern standards, i.e. completely removing the under god part, and changing it to something like united as one, or something in that context.

However, I would not let myself get to wrapped up in this, it will just cause debates and this thread will get nasty.

I stopped reciting the pledge in the 6th grade I think.
It started as me trying to be rebellious but ended up me feeling kind of creeped out by the whole notion.
The people who I go to school with don't help with their constant religious babble.
Honestly I don't see anything wrong with sitting during the pledge, and I don't see anything wrong with reciting it either.
I really don't like how the government wedged "Under god" into the pledge due to personal beliefs, but that's a completely different situation.

Greybolt

Flametta
You seem to be biased to everything about the pledge because of 2 words? and it's getting annoying, just ignore it/ don't say it if you care that badly.

No.

This country was founded upon secular ideals. Symbolism is very powerful. The pledge fails to represent the country, which often leads to corruptions such as claims of being founded on Christian ideals.

It must represent the US to the letter.

Thank you.

Flametta
You seem to be biased to everything about the pledge because of 2 words? and it's getting annoying, just ignore it/ don't say it if you care that badly.

No.

This country was founded upon secular ideals. Symbolism is very powerful. The pledge fails to represent the country, which often leads to corruptions such as claims of being founded on Christian ideals.

It must represent the US to the letter.

Dabeasty

Find Them CreepersSaying you don't like to stand for things you don't believe in in response to Dabeasty's

"If you don't want to say "Under God" then just be silent for that sentence (it's more common than you think) but don't be that d*ck who doesn't give respect to people who lost their lives fighting for your freedom"

Kinda makes it sound like you don't believe people lost their lives fighting for your freedom.. just saying.

No, I completely respect them, I plan to join the military after high school. I just get heated at people that refuse to respect people risking their lives to keep you safe.

No, I meant towards Xeno, because he said he doesn't stand, blah blah blah, in response to your post.

Flametta

xenolovegood

MissMarifire it's only tradition

But it isn't just tradition(the under god part)! Look it up!

You seem to be biased to everything about the pledge because of 2 words? and it's getting annoying, just ignore it/ don't say it if you care that badly.

Please read the description.

xenolovegood

MissMarifire it's only tradition

But it isn't just tradition(the under god part)! Look it up!

You seem to be biased to everything about the pledge because of 2 words? and it's getting annoying, just ignore it/ don't say it if you care that badly.

I don't really see why it bothers you.

It doesn't sound like the school requires you to say it (mine doesn't either), but you should just at least stand to show honor towards all the people who built this country.

Just because you're standing doesn't mean you have to agree with everything that's being said. It just shows that you at least care enough to show respect.

Just my two cents.

DabeastyI just get heated at people that refuse to respect people risking their lives to keep you safe.

I totally respect people in the military! I just don't want to do it in that way. Anyways, it never mentions the army in the pledge of allegiance.

You say you have a problem with it because your an atheist, I have a couple friends who are atheist and have no problem at all saying "Under God"

MissMarifire it's only tradition

But it isn't just tradition(the under god part)! Look it up!

Find Them CreepersSaying you don't like to stand for things you don't believe in in response to Dabeasty's

"If you don't want to say "Under God" then just be silent for that sentence (it's more common than you think) but don't be that d*ck who doesn't give respect to people who lost their lives fighting for your freedom"

Kinda makes it sound like you don't believe people lost their lives fighting for your freedom.. just saying.

No, I completely respect them, I plan to join the military after high school. I just get heated at people that refuse to respect people risking their lives to keep you safe.

Saying you don't like to stand for things you don't believe in in response to Dabeasty's

"If you don't want to say "Under God" then just be silent for that sentence (it's more common than you think) but don't be that d*ck who doesn't give respect to people who lost their lives fighting for your freedom"

Kinda makes it sound like you don't believe people lost their lives fighting for your freedom.. just saying.

I don't feel that you should be pledging allegiance to a flag or a country. It is the country's duty to engage in a mutually beneficial relationship with the citizen. By pledging allegiance, you're guaranteeing nationalism and a resistance to change.

The country must benefit the citizen, and the citizen should try to better the country. Nationalism should play no part.

I'm not getting mad. But you don't seem to understand proper respect and etiquette. When it comes to honoring our country. As little as you may or may not agree with it, it is part of our culture and something you need to just get over.

It's a really touchy subject, so all I gotta say is that the pledge of allegiance we say every morning at school is the exact same reason our band plays our Alma Mater and the Star Spangled Banner after pregame; it's out of respect and tradition. Sure, while to some it may seem 'offensive' since they don't believe in a monotheist God, but I myself as an agnostic will say that it's only tradition, it won't kill you nor make you LOOK like an American stereotype; but being a certain race or religion/lack thereof doesn't grant you the magical powers to NOT do it at american schools nor to not put your hand on your chest/take your hat off during that part of pregame.

Also guys try to be civil. It's starting to get a bit flamey in here.

I'm Atheist and Black so i find no reason to pledge

Find Them Creepers

ChronWell, I guess this begs the question; Why do you feel this way?

He's an atheist and opposed to anything against his views, which is pretty much what all the problems in the world are caused by anyway.

Kind of, but more like it says under god which sounds like I am pledging under god.

Who cares if it mentions "Under God"? I'm an athiest myself, and an American. Two words shouldn't make you completely disagree and lose pride in your country. As Azie said, it's respect. In my high school nobody is forced to say up, although you can get a detention for not standing up. How hard is it to stand up and shut up for ~30 seconds?

ChronWell, I guess this begs the question; Why do you feel this way?

He's an atheist and opposed to anything against his views. Also, that's a classic example of pretty much what all the problems in the world are caused by anyway. (Not talking about Xeno, but it's true (Not Athiests, everything))

xenolovegood

Chron

xenolovegoodAnother thing is that when I stand for the pledge of allegiance I am standing for some god not my country.

That's not true at all. That's just personal bias, trying to give yourself an excuse to not do it. If you were just standing for God, then, well, that probably would not take place in most public schools. The reason it's done nationwide is because it's for our country.

Oh I meant to say I feel like that one second I'll change it.

Well, I guess this begs the question; Why do you feel this way?

Chron

xenolovegoodAnother thing is that when I stand for the pledge of allegiance I am standing for some god not my country.

That's not true at all. That's just personal bias, trying to give yourself an excuse to not do it. If you were just standing for God, then, well, that probably would not take place in most public schools. The reason it's done nationwide is because it's for our country.

Oh I meant to say I feel like that one second I'll change it.

xenolovegoodAnother thing is that when I stand for the pledge of allegiance I am standing for some god not my country.

That's not true at all. That's just personal bias, trying to give yourself an excuse to not do it. If you were just standing for God, then, well, that probably would not take place in most public schools. The reason it's done nationwide is because it's for our country.

Another thing is that when I stand for the pledge of allegiance I feel I am standing for some god not my country.

Please nobody say that i'm too young to be an atheist because I'm pretty sure you most likely would not say that to someone religious

I think you guys are being just plain butthurt. I may not get a say because I live in Canada, but Canada isn't *British* any more, yet we still have things referencing the Queen, and people are angry about that, but for the most part, who cares? It's not like everyone dies a little every time they say it, or saying it steals your rights or something.

JUST DON'T SAY IT AND STOP BEING BUTTHURT.

xenolovegood
Also, I hate it when people say to to do it for soldiers. Not that I'm not respectful to them but that isn't the point.

It is the point, every single piece that goes into forming America, is part of the "point". If it wasn't for them, we'd still be run by the British, and you wouldn't have such an easy choice of picking a religion (or not one).

ChronOur country was founded on Christian beliefs, so that's why our pledge is the way it is.

No, if anything it was the opposite. It was founded on freedom of belief's. A good amount of our founding fathers didn't believe in a certain religion.

Plus, the reason the pledge is the way it is today, is because of the Cold War. Barely anything, if any at all had god in it, until 1954, when President Dwight D. Eisenhower urge'd congress to add "under god" to our pledge, to make us look good compared to the communists. Same thing with "In God we trust" on our money. It hasn't always been like that, and most certainly not because of our founding fathers.

Chron

DjbossMCYea im an atheist as well, i never had a problem with the pledge except for the fact that it was really boring. (Plus my middle school doesnt play it.YUS!)

You don't play the pledge of allegiance... You play the national anthem. Two different things. The national anthem doesn't mention God until the 4th verse, which I just discovered in doing research for this post... We only play and know the 1st verse for the most part.

Anyways, on the topic of the pledge: Our country was founded on Christian beliefs, so that's why our pledge is the way it is. I see it as a sign of respect to our country to recite the pledge of allegiance daily. Even the Muslims at my school say it (then again, they're really weak Muslims, but that's a different story). Even if you don't believe in a God, it's what our country was founded on, and should be honored.

I find it pretty conceited that people would put their own selves before their country, when all it asks of you is a few words. Countless individuals have died so that you and I can even be on PMC. If those brave souls wouldn't have dedicated their lives/sanity for us, this wouldn't exist. None of it would. All in all, even though you don't believe in the concept (which, in my opinion, middle school is a little young to be deciding that you're atheistic), it's still moral and ethical to do it out of respect.

I do agree with what you're saying on the rest of it though, it's for respect. It may not be your beliefs, but why make yourself look like a jerk? Do it out of respect for the people who have given you the right to be an "atheist". But that's my opinion, many will disagree.

xenolovegood

Anyways, on the topic of the pledge: Our country was founded on Christian beliefs, so that's why our pledge is the way it is. I see it as a sign of respect to our country to recite the pledge of allegiance daily. Even the Muslims at my school say it (then again, they're really weak Muslims, but that's a different story). Even if you don't believe in a God, it's what our country was founded on, and should be honored.

I find it pretty conceited that people would put their own selves before their country, when all it asks of you is a few words. Countless individuals have died so that you and I can even be on PMC. If those brave souls wouldn't have dedicated their lives/sanity for us, this wouldn't exist. None of it would. All in all, even though you don't believe in the concept (which, in my opinion, middle school is a little young to be deciding that you're atheistic), it's still moral and ethical to do it out of respect.

First of all, some of that isn't true. Also, I hate it when people say to to do it for soldiers. Not that I'm not respectful to them but that isn't the point.

Sorry, I forgot about the whole "neutral religion" thing... And I hate the soldiers argument too, but it's a very true and powerful one.

My UK friends say they don't do that there because they believe it's a brain-washing propaganda.

But as a Filipino born in Texas, I don't there's no bad influence in the pledge. Besides at the end there's a moment of silence for all of the people who have died before us and not just for the people who fought for our freedom, and all I can think about that is very much heartfelt for someone who fought for people's rights and not for them self.

Anyways, on the topic of the pledge: Our country was founded on Christian beliefs, so that's why our pledge is the way it is. I see it as a sign of respect to our country to recite the pledge of allegiance daily. Even the Muslims at my school say it (then again, they're really weak Muslims, but that's a different story). Even if you don't believe in a God, it's what our country was founded on, and should be honored.

I find it pretty conceited that people would put their own selves before their country, when all it asks of you is a few words. Countless individuals have died so that you and I can even be on PMC. If those brave souls wouldn't have dedicated their lives/sanity for us, this wouldn't exist. None of it would. All in all, even though you don't believe in the concept (which, in my opinion, middle school is a little young to be deciding that you're atheistic), it's still moral and ethical to do it out of respect.

First of all, some of that isn't true. Also, I hate it when people say to to do it for soldiers. Not that I'm not respectful to them but that isn't the point.

Chron

DjbossMCYea im an atheist as well, i never had a problem with the pledge except for the fact that it was really boring. (Plus my middle school doesnt play it.YUS!)

Anyways, on the topic of the pledge: Our country was founded on Christian beliefs, so that's why our pledge is the way it is.

Actually the founding fathers didn't want America associated with any religion. The Under god part came to us with in the last century.

I am 'luckily' not an American. No offence, I just like being Canadian.... xD. Anyway, I think that would bother me. We only have a national anthem, in which god is mentioned. I don't like that, as I am also atheist, but I don't care that much, because it's just 'God keep our land, glory-us and free' but if I had to do a pledge in his name, I would probably change it to something like under the law of the US or something dumb xD

I pledge of Allegiance to the flag...

That aside, I agree with Azie in that it's respectful and fun history fact, the term "Under God" was added during the Cold War from the Red Terror that was formerly the USSR. Also going to say that kids shouldn't have to say it except on those holidays where we really need them such as Independence Day. It shows patriotism to your fellow Americans.

I'm also an American...

I think it has to do something with creating loyal citizens early on. Which doesn't make sense I mean saying a pledge isn't going to make you loyal.

As an American, I am very proud to live here.

However, I also believe that people shouldn't be forced to recite the pledge in school. It has nothing to do with religion or my views on certain rights movements. If you don't believe in the country that the pledge stands for, then you shouldn't say it because you'd be lying to yourself and the the country you're pledging loyalty to.

You don't have to stand up either, but it's respectful. If I was in another country attending a sporting event or another event where the anthem was being sung, I would stand out of respect for the people celebrating their country, regardless of my own views on their politics.