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Can you help me learn how to trust moderators?
This is a problem that I've had for a while. I just have a difficult time believing they care about us as people or want to help us personally. When I see them around, I always feel concern rather than relief. And I know they don't deserve this mindset I have for them. That's why I'm making this forum. I want to be able to see them for the good they do, but I can't shake how I feel about the them.
Edit: this was something multiple people have brought up, so I'll respond here.
No, the fact that they are just normal people like me doesn't help. This makes me trust them even less.
Some of my responses may sound aggressive. I'm sorry if this is the case. I don't mean to attack any moderator or their actions. This is not what this thread is for.
Edit: this was something multiple people have brought up, so I'll respond here.
No, the fact that they are just normal people like me doesn't help. This makes me trust them even less.
Some of my responses may sound aggressive. I'm sorry if this is the case. I don't mean to attack any moderator or their actions. This is not what this thread is for.
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55
they are like police.
they look for anything wrong going on.
you feel uncomfortable in their presence. everyone does.
i have reported many inappropriate things to them that they took care of.
they look for anything wrong going on.
you feel uncomfortable in their presence. everyone does.
i have reported many inappropriate things to them that they took care of.
no
The mods are chill. If they didn't care this site would be in shambles. I've been on sites where the mods run wild and it's hell. On those sites, the mods don't care and you can definitely tell. This isn't the case here. They care about the site.
I mean it's like seeing the cops, you may feel nervous around them. They are just here to keep us safe. They may not care about you as a person, but they care about the community. So unless you're breaking rules I wouldn't worry about them too much.
I mean it's like seeing the cops, you may feel nervous around them. They are just here to keep us safe. They may not care about you as a person, but they care about the community. So unless you're breaking rules I wouldn't worry about them too much.
No; always distrust those with power. Especially when your comment section is filled with them
Edit: this comment section glows like hell
Edit: this comment section glows like hell
I have zero interaction with the mods here, just like I have zero interaction with the users here. I know like two people from my other minecraft forum and beyond that I just comment on random threads.
And that's okay.
I'm pretty sure the mods know that if they abuse their power, they get banned by Cyprezz, and if you don't trust Cyprezz, then, well...No idea
No
One vouchsafes a degree of trust on joining a site on the presumption of competence.
This is then theirs to lose or improve upon.
Trust [and similar things] can only be earned by the targets/recipients.
One vouchsafes a degree of trust on joining a site on the presumption of competence.
This is then theirs to lose or improve upon.
Trust [and similar things] can only be earned by the targets/recipients.
Try to think, how is it to be a moderator. What things do you need to handle, like reports, you need to know how to react to avoid mistakes. Mistakes can still happen as mods are humen too. It is a lot of work and stress, considering that they are vollunteers and have real life stuff too. Not everyone can be a staff member as you need to be a strong person to handle such things.
If your work might be rule breaking, they have to react and check if it is true. They always try to explain where is the issue in the moderation card.
If you are confussed, what does the mod mean?? You can always note the moderator or make a ticket regarding the issue. They should explain you what is wrong and you could also explain your issue if you feel that something is wrong. I had once a situation, where a mod removed "my work" due to some issues. I contacted them and presented the things that prove the work is made by me. At the end they restored my work and everything is fine.
On other social media, you would get a strike without any specific explanation, given mostly by bots as it is cheaper, however here you see who gave it and for what exactly
I don't support all the actions of the staff, however I try to understand why they have to react in some cases. I have my issues
Advice: if you get the moderation card and plan to write to the staff, try to calm yourself first. Go outside, take some deep breaths. On stress, you might not think normally and cause more damage. Handle the issues for calm, no one chases you. Rethink the things for calm while walking and seeing thinks differently. What if they meant this, because that and that.
Even ask for advice on the wallpost or forum, what to do in such case if you aren't sure what is going on. Avoid complaining about the staff in the wallposts, forums(like x is that and that). Say concrete what the problem is and what you should do to know where the problem is
Enough of my sh*tting
If your work might be rule breaking, they have to react and check if it is true. They always try to explain where is the issue in the moderation card.
If you are confussed, what does the mod mean?? You can always note the moderator or make a ticket regarding the issue. They should explain you what is wrong and you could also explain your issue if you feel that something is wrong. I had once a situation, where a mod removed "my work" due to some issues. I contacted them and presented the things that prove the work is made by me. At the end they restored my work and everything is fine.
On other social media, you would get a strike without any specific explanation, given mostly by bots as it is cheaper, however here you see who gave it and for what exactly
I don't support all the actions of the staff, however I try to understand why they have to react in some cases. I have my issues
Advice: if you get the moderation card and plan to write to the staff, try to calm yourself first. Go outside, take some deep breaths. On stress, you might not think normally and cause more damage. Handle the issues for calm, no one chases you. Rethink the things for calm while walking and seeing thinks differently. What if they meant this, because that and that.
Even ask for advice on the wallpost or forum, what to do in such case if you aren't sure what is going on. Avoid complaining about the staff in the wallposts, forums(like x is that and that). Say concrete what the problem is and what you should do to know where the problem is
Enough of my sh*tting
There's a lot of good responses below so I won't harp on and on about the transparency measures, accountability, etc. but I wanted to really hone in on your worry about whether or not we care. That's a concern that I think is really hard for any of our team to alleviate, because anything I could say will just feel like my lip-service customer service voice and like I'm not really being sincere. "Of course you're going to say you care!" and, well, I am obligated to say that -- but I also do really care about the community and do want to help people out. I'm not getting paid to be here, I get insulted and shouted at plenty often, and moderating does take out a good chunk of my spare-time some days.
...But that's OK because I like helping out and making sure people are safe, respected, and able to enjoy their time on the site without fear of being harassed or discriminated against. It's kind of always been my thing and it's probably gonna keep being my thing as I get older. My major in college was nursing because I wanted to continue serving communities in my real-life as well as in my online-life. I find fulfillment in those kinds of caretaking roles -- if I didn't, I wouldn't be here.
I know I don't do a lot of public-facing engagement with the community. Most of what I get done these days is tickets/reports/greenlights/etc. but I'm still more than happy to talk about just about anything if you or anyone else wants to send me a private message. I'm tired -- not mean. Don't be afraid to reach out to any of us, and don't be discouraged if you've had a bad experience with any single member of the team. You can always message someone else.
...But that's OK because I like helping out and making sure people are safe, respected, and able to enjoy their time on the site without fear of being harassed or discriminated against. It's kind of always been my thing and it's probably gonna keep being my thing as I get older. My major in college was nursing because I wanted to continue serving communities in my real-life as well as in my online-life. I find fulfillment in those kinds of caretaking roles -- if I didn't, I wouldn't be here.
I know I don't do a lot of public-facing engagement with the community. Most of what I get done these days is tickets/reports/greenlights/etc. but I'm still more than happy to talk about just about anything if you or anyone else wants to send me a private message. I'm tired -- not mean. Don't be afraid to reach out to any of us, and don't be discouraged if you've had a bad experience with any single member of the team. You can always message someone else.
I was a mod of PMC for 10 years. I have also moderated for other online communities.
And I can say that hands down, PMC is the best website when it comes it moderators. I have never seen another community like this one that cares about its users.
I should note that Cyprezz, Paril and Palaeos all get the real credit here. Mods come and go. Mods make mistakes, and mods improve. But those 3 have been here since the dawn of PMC. Sometimes the mod team does mess up, but it has always been those 3 that remain a center point and make sure things are fixed.
The key thing to remember is that we were all members once (except for Cyprezz). I know you say you trust "normal people" even less, and I totally get that you wouldn't trust some members becoming a mod!
However, I say this to point out that we understand exactly what it is like to be a member. Moderating is often approached with this mind, trying to be understanding of what it might be like to be on the other end of a punishment. 99% of the time we don't want to ban anyone, 1% of the time it is people who genuinely deserve it (racist, sexist, etc)
I personally retired because I could no longer allocate the necessary energy required for the job.
But I didn't leave the community. I'm still doing work with SSPBL, stay in regular contact with active mods, and remain in various PMC sub communities.
The mods you see today also have histories of making Minecraft content and posting it on the site. We are here because we love the community.
If I was a mod for the power, and treated members like numbers and cattle, why would I still be here after retirement...over 10 years later.
The main reason is because I care about PMC and want PMC to be the best place it can possibly be.
Mods are also selected based on their ability to help others and resolve disputes. The team you see are all people who are known and respected by the community.
So yes, mods aren't just average members on the site. But neither are we disconnected from the community and just robots handing out bans. Mods are members who people trust enough to enforce the rules of the site fairly.
Hope that helps. :)
And I can say that hands down, PMC is the best website when it comes it moderators. I have never seen another community like this one that cares about its users.
I should note that Cyprezz, Paril and Palaeos all get the real credit here. Mods come and go. Mods make mistakes, and mods improve. But those 3 have been here since the dawn of PMC. Sometimes the mod team does mess up, but it has always been those 3 that remain a center point and make sure things are fixed.
The key thing to remember is that we were all members once (except for Cyprezz). I know you say you trust "normal people" even less, and I totally get that you wouldn't trust some members becoming a mod!
However, I say this to point out that we understand exactly what it is like to be a member. Moderating is often approached with this mind, trying to be understanding of what it might be like to be on the other end of a punishment. 99% of the time we don't want to ban anyone, 1% of the time it is people who genuinely deserve it (racist, sexist, etc)
I personally retired because I could no longer allocate the necessary energy required for the job.
But I didn't leave the community. I'm still doing work with SSPBL, stay in regular contact with active mods, and remain in various PMC sub communities.
The mods you see today also have histories of making Minecraft content and posting it on the site. We are here because we love the community.
If I was a mod for the power, and treated members like numbers and cattle, why would I still be here after retirement...over 10 years later.
The main reason is because I care about PMC and want PMC to be the best place it can possibly be.
Mods are also selected based on their ability to help others and resolve disputes. The team you see are all people who are known and respected by the community.
So yes, mods aren't just average members on the site. But neither are we disconnected from the community and just robots handing out bans. Mods are members who people trust enough to enforce the rules of the site fairly.
Hope that helps. :)
'I've investigated myself and found myself not guilty'
Not what I said, but ok lol
I’ll at least speak for me personally on this, but I think a lot of mods share my viewpoint.
Half of what I did on PMC before becoming a moderator was complain about PMC. You can check my profile, the [Rant] forum posts are still up, and that isn’t even including the hours I spent reporting recipe packs back when they cluttered the feed. The entire reason I became a mod to begin with is because I wanted to see PMC be better, and I find it unlikely any other mod could have an ulterior motive in that regard.
I can also add: we don’t enjoy “bullying children”, or anything in that vein. To be frank, the things that could reasonably be construed as “bullying children” are the worst parts of the job. I’m a mod because I want to see the site improve, and having the opportunity to personally play a part in that improvement is fulfilling.
Half of what I did on PMC before becoming a moderator was complain about PMC. You can check my profile, the [Rant] forum posts are still up, and that isn’t even including the hours I spent reporting recipe packs back when they cluttered the feed. The entire reason I became a mod to begin with is because I wanted to see PMC be better, and I find it unlikely any other mod could have an ulterior motive in that regard.
I can also add: we don’t enjoy “bullying children”, or anything in that vein. To be frank, the things that could reasonably be construed as “bullying children” are the worst parts of the job. I’m a mod because I want to see the site improve, and having the opportunity to personally play a part in that improvement is fulfilling.
Hellooo
I don't post at all- I just kinda lurk, but I'm old and I've been around social sites a lot for a loooong time.
I think I can say that I've been hurt by staff in the past- but it was important for me to understand that all staff are going to be people. They're going to have their own minds and feelings about this type of job.
Unless it's a paying job there's really no special training people go through to give you the utmost positive experience you can have.
The real question you need to ask yourself is what are you afraid of?
Are you afraid of feeling neglected? Are you hiding from a specific person and are afraid to be found? Are you afraid staff wont take you seriously if you need them?
At the very worse- take comfort in that if you feel like you are being neglected or hurt by any staff- you can always go to another staff member to talk to them about what's going on and how it makes you feel.
Ultimately, it's going to be up to you how you handle your anxieties with this and if you'll move forward with any website, but if you're going to be online it will be something you need to consider.
Personally I try to go about my business unless I find a red flag. Until then I feel like things are fine.
I don't post at all- I just kinda lurk, but I'm old and I've been around social sites a lot for a loooong time.
I think I can say that I've been hurt by staff in the past- but it was important for me to understand that all staff are going to be people. They're going to have their own minds and feelings about this type of job.
Unless it's a paying job there's really no special training people go through to give you the utmost positive experience you can have.
The real question you need to ask yourself is what are you afraid of?
Are you afraid of feeling neglected? Are you hiding from a specific person and are afraid to be found? Are you afraid staff wont take you seriously if you need them?
At the very worse- take comfort in that if you feel like you are being neglected or hurt by any staff- you can always go to another staff member to talk to them about what's going on and how it makes you feel.
Ultimately, it's going to be up to you how you handle your anxieties with this and if you'll move forward with any website, but if you're going to be online it will be something you need to consider.
Personally I try to go about my business unless I find a red flag. Until then I feel like things are fine.
That's my point, What are you exactly afraid of?
If you don't put yourself in a bad situation, why'd you be living like you have a bounty on you... on a freakin minecraft site.
If you don't put yourself in a bad situation, why'd you be living like you have a bounty on you... on a freakin minecraft site.
Yeah sometimes moderators are helpful with some things like Drzzter who helped me change my name :D also sometimes moderators could ban u because of ur content when someone else did it later and didnt get punished. also how can u report someone???
But, sometimes moderators can be playfull like Silabear, and DinowCookie they dont just sit around and do nothing, they make descussions and act like normal people.
But how do u become a mod? well some things we will never know....
But yh I agree with u bec somemod punished me for a content when someone made the same thing a week after!!!! its so annoying and they made the skin THEIR PROFILE PICTURE @MODS Look at others things, and I reccomend u to send the link to the original post in a message to the people who are punished so they can see and not be angry. (This is my longest comment)
But, sometimes moderators can be playfull like Silabear, and DinowCookie they dont just sit around and do nothing, they make descussions and act like normal people.
But how do u become a mod? well some things we will never know....
But yh I agree with u bec somemod punished me for a content when someone made the same thing a week after!!!! its so annoying and they made the skin THEIR PROFILE PICTURE @MODS Look at others things, and I reccomend u to send the link to the original post in a message to the people who are punished so they can see and not be angry. (This is my longest comment)
You can report someone on their profile page. There will be a little menu (the three dots next to the Message button) with an option that says “report”. Please use that if you want to report anyone, or alternatively file a ticket/message a staff member.
Oh Thank u :D
As a moderator myself I don’t really know how to fairly and unbiasedly answer this, but I can give you some helpful points
For more info, you can read our rules section about moderation (To be clear, I wrote most of this).
If you have any other concerns please let me know. I can say that the team of moderators we have are amazing people and I really don’t want you (or anyone else) to get the wrong impression from us :P
- Almost everything about the site is discussed in our staff discord server, so you can be assured that, quite often when a moderator issues a sanction, it’s not necessarily just coming from that moderator, but rather coming as a result of the input of many of us.
- Every action done by any moderator is seen by all other moderators in the modlogs. If there’s an issue with anything, it will be discussed in the previously mentioned staff server (and this does happen :P).
- You mention that you worried we could abuse our powers, but why would any moderator want to do that? We’d just be demoted, for a start, and it would lower our reputation in the community.
- That being said, if you do think a moderator is abusing their powers, please please please tell somebody. While I hold a firm belief that nobody on the staff team would/could do that, if you think otherwise, we want to know.
- You can report moderators. You can also block moderators if you have a reason to by contacting an admin. The only reason the block block (English is not Englishing) exists is to stop people from blocking all the staff to try and get out of being punished.
For more info, you can read our rules section about moderation (To be clear, I wrote most of this).
If you have any other concerns please let me know. I can say that the team of moderators we have are amazing people and I really don’t want you (or anyone else) to get the wrong impression from us :P
idk, but i agree with you. i cant really trust mods either, they just sit there waiting for someone to do something wrong so they can finally message after like a year in between someone breaking the rules. its stupid enough, i believe mods should be able to chat but some servers aren't like that and its just.. ugh
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that that's mindset I can't shake even though it's not true. I want to figure out how I can move past that and better understand them so that they can help me better.
i make silly lil posts and do silly engage thingies and is good..............how can you fear not the chorizo? https://www.planetminecraft.com/member/goggled0gg/wall/post/872449/
but ye ye, i joined this communtiy a whielelelelele ago, like this community LOTS AND LOTS, so i like to helpppp jeep k pee keep it clean and nice and clean and nice.....................................................we not ouut to get folks, we just. we do. we do the moderateeeee so this place can be SQUEAKAKAY cleaNies.
also also also if a mod do a bad you can report them/file a ticket/that stuff, we mmake mistakes sometimeesss, we try not to thooooooooo
but ye ye, i joined this communtiy a whielelelelele ago, like this community LOTS AND LOTS, so i like to helpppp jeep k pee keep it clean and nice and clean and nice.....................................................we not ouut to get folks, we just. we do. we do the moderateeeee so this place can be SQUEAKAKAY cleaNies.
also also also if a mod do a bad you can report them/file a ticket/that stuff, we mmake mistakes sometimeesss, we try not to thooooooooo
This is supposed to be serious. I'm trying to make the effort to be able to receive help from you. Instead, you post this. I want to have someone who will take my issues seriously! Otherwise, I can't stay here!
I can barley read this.
Do you even take your job seriously?
Do you even take your job seriously?
Well he is trying to comfort you and make you feel like they're basically a normal person who's got a role assigned to him.
But why are you taking a minecraft related site moderator too seriously to the point like he's part of the government and can imprison you? They're people who's jobs are to keep the site clean from inappropriate stuff. I really can't wrap my head around why are you so scared of em 0-0
But why are you taking a minecraft related site moderator too seriously to the point like he's part of the government and can imprison you? They're people who's jobs are to keep the site clean from inappropriate stuff. I really can't wrap my head around why are you so scared of em 0-0
i take one thing seriously and that thing is chorizo
Not helping
A PMC mod is just a regular member trying to keep the site safe.
They can't be untrustworthy if Cyprezz chose them.
They can't be untrustworthy if Cyprezz chose them.
"safe"
Whatever tf that means
Whatever tf that means
What if they are, even if Cyprezz chose them? If they do things that they shouldn't, nobody can do anything about it because you can't report or block moderators. And why bother getting help from another moderator at that point?
You don’t they are not trustworthy
this is a joke (kinda)
Guess who you're reported to? :D
Bro, that was not right...
~post blog instead of forum (mods) so you have chosen death?.... (Jagdpantherking131) Youll never take me alive! ~runs (mods) what is wrong with this dude? he just needs to start a forum
Note this is all a joke i have nothing bad with da mods even though it sometimes seems unfair what they do so yea! mods dont kill me please D: and have a good day :D
Note this is all a joke i have nothing bad with da mods even though it sometimes seems unfair what they do so yea! mods dont kill me please D: and have a good day :D
Well, you wouldn't be the first to feel uneasy seeing enforcers around even while everything is fine...
But a PMC moderator really is just another member who at one point was invited to help out keeping the site safe. All we want is for PMC to be a positive and creative place. When we find members breaking rules or causing a fuss, we first assume it's an honest mistake and try to point in the right direction. When I first joined PMC as a young teen I needed a few of those pointers too... 😅
But a PMC moderator really is just another member who at one point was invited to help out keeping the site safe. All we want is for PMC to be a positive and creative place. When we find members breaking rules or causing a fuss, we first assume it's an honest mistake and try to point in the right direction. When I first joined PMC as a young teen I needed a few of those pointers too... 😅
If they really are just another member, why is there judgement for the rules more important than anyone else's? Are they trained to be good at what they do? What's stopping them from abusing their power?
The entire point of moderators is to be a judge of how the rules are being kept, so why would their judgement ever be wrong enough to have to be held accountable?
I only ever asked the official PMC account for help through the private messaging system. The FAQ said it would work and a moderator reassured it would. That was five months ago and I never heard back.
And I can't ask a moderator for help because I don't know which one is going to help, or even care. I assume "if no one has done anything about it by now, they never will, so why bother?"
The entire point of moderators is to be a judge of how the rules are being kept, so why would their judgement ever be wrong enough to have to be held accountable?
I only ever asked the official PMC account for help through the private messaging system. The FAQ said it would work and a moderator reassured it would. That was five months ago and I never heard back.
And I can't ask a moderator for help because I don't know which one is going to help, or even care. I assume "if no one has done anything about it by now, they never will, so why bother?"
One thing to consider is that being a moderator is a voluntary position; we're all people with lives we must live and our own responsibilities to handle. Five months is quite a long time to go unanswered, certainly, but things happen and sometimes messages get missed. If you have a question that goes unanswered, you can always message another moderator or make a ticket (which lets multiple mods/admins look into your question and offer assistance; a very easy way to make sure that your problem is addressed).
Mods are typically people who have been here for a long time--I myself have been using PMC for over 12 years at this point. We've seen it all and have generally gained an affinity for handling a multitude of different situations on both the content and social sides of PMC. We follow and enforce the rules to the best of our abilities, and if there's ever cases of uncertainty, we get multiple opinions to make the best call available. I don't think you have to trust or distrust anybody specifically, though. If you can't find it in yourself to trust someone, even though they've done nothing to wrong you, then that's something I think you just have to work on yourself. We're people, and people slip up, and we simply try our best to make sure things go right and that people are held accountable.
On that note, there is a difference between making mistakes in moderation and moderation abuse--the latter of which is something I think everybody on the team takes seriously. There's numerous safeguards and regulations to ensure that no one is treated unfairly, and if you ever feel like that might be the case, then you can actually report moderators or make tickets regarding actions taken.
Mods are typically people who have been here for a long time--I myself have been using PMC for over 12 years at this point. We've seen it all and have generally gained an affinity for handling a multitude of different situations on both the content and social sides of PMC. We follow and enforce the rules to the best of our abilities, and if there's ever cases of uncertainty, we get multiple opinions to make the best call available. I don't think you have to trust or distrust anybody specifically, though. If you can't find it in yourself to trust someone, even though they've done nothing to wrong you, then that's something I think you just have to work on yourself. We're people, and people slip up, and we simply try our best to make sure things go right and that people are held accountable.
On that note, there is a difference between making mistakes in moderation and moderation abuse--the latter of which is something I think everybody on the team takes seriously. There's numerous safeguards and regulations to ensure that no one is treated unfairly, and if you ever feel like that might be the case, then you can actually report moderators or make tickets regarding actions taken.
I think I need to correct and ask about a few things.
I messaged PMC about my issue. And they either missed the message, or ignored it. If they missed it, that just damages their reliability because of the fact that they can miss a call for help that easily. If they ignored it, that proves that my distrust for the moderation is valid, as they won't even elaborate on why they won't help.
You also mention how I'm either distrusting someone without them doing anything, or the moderators I don't trust are abusing their power.
For the moderators who haven't done anything wrong, I made this thread precisely because I want to work on it.
What I wonder about is the moderation abuse. If that's an issue you take seriously, why should I question when you don't? Obviously if you haven't already dealt with it, that means it's not a problem, right?
Sorry if I sound aggressive. I don't mean to.
I messaged PMC about my issue. And they either missed the message, or ignored it. If they missed it, that just damages their reliability because of the fact that they can miss a call for help that easily. If they ignored it, that proves that my distrust for the moderation is valid, as they won't even elaborate on why they won't help.
You also mention how I'm either distrusting someone without them doing anything, or the moderators I don't trust are abusing their power.
For the moderators who haven't done anything wrong, I made this thread precisely because I want to work on it.
What I wonder about is the moderation abuse. If that's an issue you take seriously, why should I question when you don't? Obviously if you haven't already dealt with it, that means it's not a problem, right?
Sorry if I sound aggressive. I don't mean to.
No worries at all, I hope I didn't come across as rude or anything either!
I think Paril's response below is an excellent summation of the professional aspects of being a mod, so I would just like to follow up with my own little anecdote! For me personally, I took up the moderator mantle because PMC has been a second home to me for over a decade and is undoubtedly responsible for helping shape me as a person. I've found tons of friends and even met my S/O because of this website. And because of that, I want to make sure that I do my best to keep the users here safe and civil in hopes that other people who also consider PMC a second home feel safe and comfortable. Likewise, as a person who's been making content on this site for that same stretch of twelve years, I know the frustrations of having your own work stolen or heavily edited by someone else, and that's why I make sure I handle content-related moderation seriously.
It's kind of hard to speak about trust, given that I'm currently a moderator, but I think something that might help with trusting moderators--on top of the coming transparency efforts Paril mentioned--is just getting to know them and seeing how they act about certain things. As someone with autism, it's a bit difficult to make wall posts or do much in the way of public speaking, but I do still try to engage with the community through smaller gestures, which is exactly why I wanted to make a couple replies here on this thread. Other mods here make a ton of wall posts and leave comments and interact with the community socially. All of us, though, are trying our best!
I myself am generally on PMC multiple times a day, and even when I'm offline I get email notifications about private messages, so if you (or anyone else) need any questions answered or complaints to raise, my inbox is always open (on top of the aforementioned ticket system too ofc). I hope this helps in some way, at least!!
I think Paril's response below is an excellent summation of the professional aspects of being a mod, so I would just like to follow up with my own little anecdote! For me personally, I took up the moderator mantle because PMC has been a second home to me for over a decade and is undoubtedly responsible for helping shape me as a person. I've found tons of friends and even met my S/O because of this website. And because of that, I want to make sure that I do my best to keep the users here safe and civil in hopes that other people who also consider PMC a second home feel safe and comfortable. Likewise, as a person who's been making content on this site for that same stretch of twelve years, I know the frustrations of having your own work stolen or heavily edited by someone else, and that's why I make sure I handle content-related moderation seriously.
It's kind of hard to speak about trust, given that I'm currently a moderator, but I think something that might help with trusting moderators--on top of the coming transparency efforts Paril mentioned--is just getting to know them and seeing how they act about certain things. As someone with autism, it's a bit difficult to make wall posts or do much in the way of public speaking, but I do still try to engage with the community through smaller gestures, which is exactly why I wanted to make a couple replies here on this thread. Other mods here make a ton of wall posts and leave comments and interact with the community socially. All of us, though, are trying our best!
I myself am generally on PMC multiple times a day, and even when I'm offline I get email notifications about private messages, so if you (or anyone else) need any questions answered or complaints to raise, my inbox is always open (on top of the aforementioned ticket system too ofc). I hope this helps in some way, at least!!
Just as a note, the PMC account is a very specific staff account that is sort of like community relations - they shouldn't really be messaged for support stuff because it can easily get lost in their messages (because they just forward those things to us, they don't directly handle them in most cases). Directly messaging a site/super/admin or using tickets is a better way of getting us to see issues that aren't community-related. The FAQs direct you to tickets or to use the email form in extreme cases (the emails go to Cyprezz).
We do take every report seriously, but with the mod abuse thing it's hard for us to view it that way because we work with these people every day. All of us see all of the other moderators' actions (we have a single hub feed that basically shows us all what all the other moderators are doing, ban messages, ticket replies, etc; it's all visible to all moderators at once), it'd be extremely difficult for a moderator to 'fly under the radar' so to speak and go after people. This actually was something that has happened in the past (like 10+ years ago), we've learned from what happened and applied measures to ensure everybody is aware of what everybody else is doing.
Transparency is important, and we've been making efforts to close the gap of differences between what mods do and what users can see, but for a lot of ethical and user privacy reasons there'll never be complete transparency. When it comes to individual user actions, we've always taken the approach of not specifically commenting on user actions and not getting involved in public disputes. A side effect of this is that it allows the users to effectively control the narrative surrounding mod actions because we don't comment on those & delete discussions about them. There's only been maybe two cases where we've actually made a public post about something that has happened moderation-wise.
We also recently added an exception to member reports when they're filed against a moderator - that moderator will not see the report, ensuring that it can't be silently dismissed even if they tried to.
There's also a larger moderator/report update coming likely this week that will allow users to view their own moderation history, and a few other tools for users to help streamline communication between the mod team and users.
EDIT: I saw your other questions above this too, I'll answer these directly:
Their judgment isn't necessarily more important - the trust we place in them is the ability to act on them. The trust comes from us seeing what they've done with reports, seeing how they interact with members and believing that they'd be a good member of the team. Sometimes that doesn't work out, but it is what it is - some moderators were only with us for a short period of time, whether it be because they decided they didn't want the role or because we felt they didn't work well with the team. It's rare, though.
The users have a similar control of judgment over what they feel is appropriate or inappropriate for the site. They can report anything they feel like reporting for any reason, and there have been many times where a report causes internal discussion about the content matter and even changes our view on whether we would have deemed it appropriate before seeing the report.
Yes. The mod tools often aren't self-explanatory (which is another thing we're still working on), and like 90% of the job isn't really fiddling with tools but rather interpreting the rules and applying them to reports. In the past, we used a sort of buddy system to pair a new moderator with a more senior moderator to mentor them on the tools and directly answer questions. Our team is a lot smaller now than it was back then, so we can't really do this any more, but this was also before Discord was a thing and we had to communicate entirely within a single Skype group chat. With Discord now, we have a multi-channel mod server and it's a lot easier to have different discussions at the same time. New moderators are encouraged to ask senior moderators on stuff, and we strongly encourage them to do so if they have any doubts since it's like the only good way to build a confidence in the role.
Other moderators - I mostly answered this up top, but moderators don't work within a self-bubble.
A lot of rules are explicitly vague or open-ended because we can't possibly list everything that is either disallowed or allowed. Everybody is different and has different thoughts about what is or isn't appropriate as a public discussion, for instance - so the question is more about "how does everybody agree on whether something is allowed or not". Sometimes we don't all agree, and in that case what happens is the moderator errs on the side of leaving it and posting about it on our Discord, asking for what we've done with somesuch in the past or asking for a concrete answer. If the discussion feels like it's going nowhere - which does happen sometimes - myself and Cyprezz will make the final call.
For judgment being wrong to be held accountable, this does actually happen more often than one would think. Generally what happens is another moderator will ping them on our Discord and ask them about a specific case (ie, "@Paril about <link to content / ticket>, can you give me more info about this?"), and the moderator will follow up with them there. Sometimes a moderator is wrong, and they'll be informed about the correct approach & they'll fix it. We generally ask the moderator that made the mistake to correct it themselves rather than having other moderators directly undo or change something another moderator made, since it can get messy if it looks to the user like we're fighting over a decision even though internally it doesn't work that way.
We do take every report seriously, but with the mod abuse thing it's hard for us to view it that way because we work with these people every day. All of us see all of the other moderators' actions (we have a single hub feed that basically shows us all what all the other moderators are doing, ban messages, ticket replies, etc; it's all visible to all moderators at once), it'd be extremely difficult for a moderator to 'fly under the radar' so to speak and go after people. This actually was something that has happened in the past (like 10+ years ago), we've learned from what happened and applied measures to ensure everybody is aware of what everybody else is doing.
Transparency is important, and we've been making efforts to close the gap of differences between what mods do and what users can see, but for a lot of ethical and user privacy reasons there'll never be complete transparency. When it comes to individual user actions, we've always taken the approach of not specifically commenting on user actions and not getting involved in public disputes. A side effect of this is that it allows the users to effectively control the narrative surrounding mod actions because we don't comment on those & delete discussions about them. There's only been maybe two cases where we've actually made a public post about something that has happened moderation-wise.
We also recently added an exception to member reports when they're filed against a moderator - that moderator will not see the report, ensuring that it can't be silently dismissed even if they tried to.
There's also a larger moderator/report update coming likely this week that will allow users to view their own moderation history, and a few other tools for users to help streamline communication between the mod team and users.
EDIT: I saw your other questions above this too, I'll answer these directly:
If they really are just another member, why is there judgement for the rules more important than anyone else's?
Their judgment isn't necessarily more important - the trust we place in them is the ability to act on them. The trust comes from us seeing what they've done with reports, seeing how they interact with members and believing that they'd be a good member of the team. Sometimes that doesn't work out, but it is what it is - some moderators were only with us for a short period of time, whether it be because they decided they didn't want the role or because we felt they didn't work well with the team. It's rare, though.
The users have a similar control of judgment over what they feel is appropriate or inappropriate for the site. They can report anything they feel like reporting for any reason, and there have been many times where a report causes internal discussion about the content matter and even changes our view on whether we would have deemed it appropriate before seeing the report.
Are they trained to be good at what they do?
Yes. The mod tools often aren't self-explanatory (which is another thing we're still working on), and like 90% of the job isn't really fiddling with tools but rather interpreting the rules and applying them to reports. In the past, we used a sort of buddy system to pair a new moderator with a more senior moderator to mentor them on the tools and directly answer questions. Our team is a lot smaller now than it was back then, so we can't really do this any more, but this was also before Discord was a thing and we had to communicate entirely within a single Skype group chat. With Discord now, we have a multi-channel mod server and it's a lot easier to have different discussions at the same time. New moderators are encouraged to ask senior moderators on stuff, and we strongly encourage them to do so if they have any doubts since it's like the only good way to build a confidence in the role.
What's stopping them from abusing their power?
Other moderators - I mostly answered this up top, but moderators don't work within a self-bubble.
The entire point of moderators is to be a judge of how the rules are being kept, so why would their judgement ever be wrong enough to have to be held accountable?
A lot of rules are explicitly vague or open-ended because we can't possibly list everything that is either disallowed or allowed. Everybody is different and has different thoughts about what is or isn't appropriate as a public discussion, for instance - so the question is more about "how does everybody agree on whether something is allowed or not". Sometimes we don't all agree, and in that case what happens is the moderator errs on the side of leaving it and posting about it on our Discord, asking for what we've done with somesuch in the past or asking for a concrete answer. If the discussion feels like it's going nowhere - which does happen sometimes - myself and Cyprezz will make the final call.
For judgment being wrong to be held accountable, this does actually happen more often than one would think. Generally what happens is another moderator will ping them on our Discord and ask them about a specific case (ie, "@Paril about <link to content / ticket>, can you give me more info about this?"), and the moderator will follow up with them there. Sometimes a moderator is wrong, and they'll be informed about the correct approach & they'll fix it. We generally ask the moderator that made the mistake to correct it themselves rather than having other moderators directly undo or change something another moderator made, since it can get messy if it looks to the user like we're fighting over a decision even though internally it doesn't work that way.
I think this can be summed up to two things. The first is that you're afraid of them, seeing them as strictly authoritative figures who have absolute control over what you do and that they can take anything you make down at a moment's notice. The second possibility is an overbearing sense of responsibility, the notion that what you make has to be good enough, that you have to make sure you did it right, so that they, and the rest of the community will like it. The issue could be for either one of these reasons, or they could be acting in co-contribution. The solution is to stop worrying to this unnerving extent and to know that what you make and do is good enough, then you can see that they're just a user, just like you.
I don't think trust is exactly something someone can teach, and I don't completely trust the mods either.
Not because they're bad people, but because they're human. Humans mess up.
But, if you want to work on it, this might help:
If you don't trust someone, try to find out the reason/reasons for it. Why don't you trust them? Are these good reasons?
If the reasons aren't, focus on reasons why you should trust this person.
If the reasons are, why should you push yourself to trust someone who isn't trustworthy?
I don't know if I'm completely addressing the subject; sorry if this is off topic.
Not because they're bad people, but because they're human. Humans mess up.
But, if you want to work on it, this might help:
If you don't trust someone, try to find out the reason/reasons for it. Why don't you trust them? Are these good reasons?
If the reasons aren't, focus on reasons why you should trust this person.
If the reasons are, why should you push yourself to trust someone who isn't trustworthy?
I don't know if I'm completely addressing the subject; sorry if this is off topic.
I think my reason is that they don't feel like people who our on my side. I know that isn't true, but it's something I can't get past. And this is for all moderators, not just select ones. Also, being on PMC requires you to trust them, so I have to push myself to trust them, even if I were to genuinely think I shouldn't.
You aren't required to trust anyone at all for any reason.
Your safety is always important.
The only thing you *should* trust (but don't have to) is that things they are required to do, should be done. Because if they're not they have to report back to someone higher than them.
It's kinda like going into a business- say a walmart, a mcdonalds, anything. Any employee could absolutely hate their job- but they do their job regardless of how they feel because they are expected to and if they don't they lose their job. You trust that you'll get your meal or your items that you buy and nothing bad will happen to you in that process.
If anything happens there will always be someone to step in to make sure that you are safe and okay. : )
Your safety is always important.
The only thing you *should* trust (but don't have to) is that things they are required to do, should be done. Because if they're not they have to report back to someone higher than them.
It's kinda like going into a business- say a walmart, a mcdonalds, anything. Any employee could absolutely hate their job- but they do their job regardless of how they feel because they are expected to and if they don't they lose their job. You trust that you'll get your meal or your items that you buy and nothing bad will happen to you in that process.
If anything happens there will always be someone to step in to make sure that you are safe and okay. : )
I edited the forum to explain why I don't trust them.
You just do that. No big philosophy. No matter all the silly posts (Perfect example: GoggleD0GG. No offense, the posts are usually just random in a silly way that we all love and rarely we can find stuff like announcements or rants), they where chosen to handle the site for a reason.
im assillylyylyy
Okay, I edited the forum. It should make more sense now.
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