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Enraric
Azie
Hey guys! So for those who don't know, I just wrote a blog discussing the pros and cons of potentially bringing downvotes back to the site.
I know right? Radical.
I'm not going to restate everything I've said in the blog here, but basically I think they need to come back since, as demonstrated by the whole teen skin argument that PMC's been filled with for the last while, there are posts getting to the pop reel, and by extension that seem to be popular, but really aren't. The reason? Dissenters can't affect the popularity of a post because the only thing they can do is ignore or comment.
My proposal? Bring back downvotes. This solves the problem. My full proposal can be found in the blog post.
If we get enough people here voting the bring back downvotes, maybe we really can get them back to the site. And if you're in support of bringing them back, spread the word by adding this to your signature:
It'll look like this:
If we get enough support, maybe we can really make this big change here at PMC! Wouldn't that be exciting?
I know right? Radical.
I'm not going to restate everything I've said in the blog here, but basically I think they need to come back since, as demonstrated by the whole teen skin argument that PMC's been filled with for the last while, there are posts getting to the pop reel, and by extension that seem to be popular, but really aren't. The reason? Dissenters can't affect the popularity of a post because the only thing they can do is ignore or comment.
My proposal? Bring back downvotes. This solves the problem. My full proposal can be found in the blog post.
If we get enough people here voting the bring back downvotes, maybe we really can get them back to the site. And if you're in support of bringing them back, spread the word by adding this to your signature:
[center][url=http://www.planetminecraft.com/forums/bringing-back-downvotes-official-poll-and-forum-thread-t408743.html][img]http://i.imgur.com/mgqXCyb.png[/img][/url][/center]It'll look like this:
If we get enough support, maybe we can really make this big change here at PMC! Wouldn't that be exciting?
Create an account or sign in to comment.
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Necropost. /lock
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Hehehe. My vote for 'Yes' just made the poll 50/50.
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If you don't like it, don't diamond, simple.
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jdf2AzieI doubt downvotes will ever be coming back as they were removed with good reason the last time.
May I ask why they were removed?
Jackok so, the downvote was removed because it was abused, i know this because during the time of downvotes I was made a moderator and when i banned anyone, every single one of my submissions would suddenly receive downvotes, then there's the well known skin makers/ mod makers/ project makers and tp makers who had the issue of jealous people downvoting.
It is not a welcomed idea by the majority of pmc for the reason of it will just get abused again and the moderators just will not be able to keep up with the troll downvotes as there will be just way too many of them, so I say no to this entirely.
Also
Enraric-shorten-
Sometimes my dislike of a post is not because of the posts quality. For example, the number of generic anime girl skins kind of pisses me off, and even though some of the mare well made, the sheer number of them compared to the number of any other type of skin bothers me. So what would you suggest I comment to tell them I don't like it?
-shorten-
I think this is one of the biggest problems with downvotes. People will say "I hate this type of skin" and downvote all of them, without just cause. Doing it only because they don't like the genre or fandom.
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No, adding downvotes would be more downgrading than positive, absolute NO to downvoting, I don't like seeing downvotes on my youtube channel, why would I want to see them on my submissions? Reason why- downvotes are easily abused and unless a system was put in place moderators can't monitor every single downvote on a submission post (the mods do a great job...just making up an example ).
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Enraric-shorten-
Sometimes my dislike of a post is not because of the posts quality. For example, the number of generic anime girl skins kind of pisses me off, and even though some of the mare well made, the sheer number of them compared to the number of any other type of skin bothers me. So what would you suggest I comment to tell them I don't like it?
-shorten-
I think this is one of the biggest problems with downvotes. People will say "I hate this type of skin" and downvote all of them. If 1 skin is bad, you should take the time to say so. If a slew of skins are bad, ignore it and move on.
@kewl, even some of the Level 10+ are immature, and very few would use their exp to downvote, if they care enough, they will leave a comment saying why the post is bad.
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That would be Negative.
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I don't have very much to say here, apart from the fact that I was not around until (really) late 2013, so I didn't see down votes in action.
However, here is my opinion:
dislikes = dislike trolls
However, here is my opinion:
dislikes = dislike trolls
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I doubt downvotes will ever be coming back as they were removed with good reason the last time.
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May I ask why they were removed?
I'm pretty neutral here. There are alot of pros and alot of cons, I can't decide...
I'm pretty neutral here. There are alot of pros and alot of cons, I can't decide...
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What about you have to give a reason for downvoting something or you have to be above a certain level?
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Yeah, level 10+s only, or it costs you 30-50 XP each time
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Jetran8moPlaysMCSites like Reddit and YouTube have a downvote/dislike feature, but it only works because they have mature communities.
No. I think Reddit has a horribly biased community (not a sign of immaturity, just stubbornness) and read some YouTube comments sometime...
I was talking about the grand scheme of things; collectively the people on YouTube are more mature than PMC'ers. Although I do get what you mean with Reddit; their community is quite biased, but for the most part mature.
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Well, it could be set up so only level 10+ members could downvote, and it takes 50 XP from your rank each time you downvote. This would stop trolls, and only people who were serious about it would downvote.
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n8moPlaysMCSites like Reddit and YouTube have a downvote/dislike feature, but it only works because they have mature communities.
No. I think Reddit has a horribly biased community (not a sign of immaturity, just stubbornness) and read some YouTube comments sometime...
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I'm curious as to how this would work with the PMC XP system. If we are talking submissions, people get XP points per views, but if someone disliked something, would the person with the disliked submission lose XP points? Would the view point be taken away? How would this affect how the submissions shows up in list? Would downvotes move it down the line and deeper into the list, or would it simple do nothing? How would the algorithm for all of this work, exactly? I assume it worked (at least to some extent) before, but considering it was removed, I would also assume it was either abused or it didn't work well enough.
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I was just thinking no loss in XP, but that's just me.
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I really do wish there was a sort of downvote system on PMC; I despise some of the crap that ends up on the popreel. However the community really isn't mature enough on here; the system would be abused like crazy. Sites like Reddit and YouTube have a downvote/dislike feature, but it only works because they have mature communities.
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I can't say I want downvotes to come back unless you HAVE to give a reason when you downvote. That way if they give a proper reason the creator can fix the problem. It will avoid simple hate. If they give a stupid reason than it's once again the moderators job to remove that downvote. Than again I think moderators are busy enough as it is, lets not give them more hard work.
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JetraI actually read the post, hence why I said if you were given the option to review a downvote will lead people to saying "I can't downvote this crap submission and that's unfair!!!" Also, what one might think to be poor quality another might think to be high quality and vice versa. If a downvote system were put in place, maybe make it so that if something receives X downvotes in Y amount of time which would be a few couple seconds apart, it locks the post and alerts moderators to possible abuse? IDK, just an idea.
Good idea!
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Rawkstarscotty
(Sorry if someone stated this before. I just saw a few giant walls of text and I was too lazy to read them all.)
xD I guess mine was one.
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ok so, the downvote was removed because it was abused, i know this because during the time of downvotes I was made a moderator and when i banned anyone, every single one of my submissions would suddenly receive downvotes, then there's the well known skin makers/ mod makers/ project makers and tp makers who had the issue of jealous people downvoting.
It is not a welcomed idea by the majority of pmc for the reason of it will just get abused again and the moderators just will not be able to keep up with the troll downvotes as there will be just way too many of them, so I say no to this entirely.
It is not a welcomed idea by the majority of pmc for the reason of it will just get abused again and the moderators just will not be able to keep up with the troll downvotes as there will be just way too many of them, so I say no to this entirely.
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It would be nice in the right hands, be I don't trust the internet. I just think if it was brought back, people would just downvote things for the sake of it. Such as "You didn't give me op on your server, so I'm going to downvote all your stuff." I feel as if the rating system used on steam would be more appropriate, so at least then you would state more of a review then just voting up or down. If that happened, you could have more reasonable responses, criticizing on what the poster did wrong and how they can improve, etc. Even if this happened though, a few people would still abuse the system.
(Sorry if someone stated this before. I just saw a few giant walls of text and I was too lazy to read them all.)
(Sorry if someone stated this before. I just saw a few giant walls of text and I was too lazy to read them all.)
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READ - very serious stuff here
Well, you know ... it’ll bring many haters to power. For Example> anime (for example.):
Some people like anime (like me...), and some don’t.
...and some people just hate it so much, that they keep surfing throught anime sites/posts and hitting the dislike button - NOT BECOUSE THEY DONT LIKE THE POST!... but just because they dont like anime....
This basically can be done with everything... ...and just becouse of that we shouldn’t bring the dovnvotes back....
Well, you know ... it’ll bring many haters to power. For Example> anime (for example.):
Some people like anime (like me...), and some don’t.
...and some people just hate it so much, that they keep surfing throught anime sites/posts and hitting the dislike button - NOT BECOUSE THEY DONT LIKE THE POST!... but just because they dont like anime....
This basically can be done with everything... ...and just becouse of that we shouldn’t bring the dovnvotes back....
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I honestly wouldn't mind this if it weren't for the trolls, and people would downvote something just because they don't like the uploader. Other than that,I wouldn't mind this
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This is a terrible idea. There are a lot of trolls out there that will just downvote anything. It wouldn't be fair to just give the community a power like that. This is the same thing as trying to add a dislike button to Facebook or Instagram. There are so many haters that it would ruin some members' PMC experience. The downvote would bring a lot of negativity as stated above on this site, and I think nobody needs any of that. As long as somebody follows the rules when they post something, I don't think they need anybody saying anything bad about their post. Isn't that what this site is trying to avoid?
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As with eagoy and Midnight I was fairly late to the party when it came to downvoting submissions and I understand the pain of not knowing if something was wrong with my post I would never know which is why I encourage everyone to comment exactly what is wrong, they shouldn't have to be afraid to tell me it sucks because then I can improve (would help with my skins actually, lol). That aside, I would love nothing more than to have something like that in place, however, there are far more cons than there are pros to the matter simply because of the competitive environment that is PMC.
Moderators deal with alt accounts on an almost regular basis, usually to avoid bans given to them previously. If it ever did make a comeback, it would give some members reasons to create hundreds of new accounts do diamond all of their stuff while downvoting everyone else's posts. If there were a way to review downvotes then it'd probably wouldn't be as negative as some might claim it to be. But if you did that, members would complain that they can't downvote because their request gets denied.
Personally, this would cause more chaos to all as various members would begin to create hundreds or even thousands of new accounts to take down popular submissions such as a Moderator, an admin, or even members like Kefka or Sugarbun. Not as many people play the game as when it was in it's early days, but that does not mean that some wouldn't be bored or angry enough to create a bunch of accounts to get revenge because they feel they're being mistreated or some other excuse.
For now, if you don't like something, just leave a comment as to why, that is really the best thing you can do. Downvotes, as useful as it could be, would be extremely hard to control if it were ever implemented thanks to some ban evaders learning to use proxies in an environment that teaches that Anonymity is encouraged and that illegal things like pirating or DDoSing are okay as long as you feel your intentions are just.
Moderators deal with alt accounts on an almost regular basis, usually to avoid bans given to them previously. If it ever did make a comeback, it would give some members reasons to create hundreds of new accounts do diamond all of their stuff while downvoting everyone else's posts. If there were a way to review downvotes then it'd probably wouldn't be as negative as some might claim it to be. But if you did that, members would complain that they can't downvote because their request gets denied.
Personally, this would cause more chaos to all as various members would begin to create hundreds or even thousands of new accounts to take down popular submissions such as a Moderator, an admin, or even members like Kefka or Sugarbun. Not as many people play the game as when it was in it's early days, but that does not mean that some wouldn't be bored or angry enough to create a bunch of accounts to get revenge because they feel they're being mistreated or some other excuse.
For now, if you don't like something, just leave a comment as to why, that is really the best thing you can do. Downvotes, as useful as it could be, would be extremely hard to control if it were ever implemented thanks to some ban evaders learning to use proxies in an environment that teaches that Anonymity is encouraged and that illegal things like pirating or DDoSing are okay as long as you feel your intentions are just.
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So I don;t know if you actually read the blog with the full proposal, but I had suggested a way to review downvotes.
That being said, you make valid points; I hadn't thought of the alts issue. So thanks for bringing that up.
Sometimes my dislike of a post is not because of the posts quality. For example, the number of generic anime girl skins kind of pisses me off, and even though some of the mare well made, the sheer number of them compared to the number of any other type of skin bothers me. So what would you suggest I comment to tell them I don't like it? You're a mod so obviously you have good judgement, so I'll defer to that. What would you suggest?
That being said, you make valid points; I hadn't thought of the alts issue. So thanks for bringing that up.
Sometimes my dislike of a post is not because of the posts quality. For example, the number of generic anime girl skins kind of pisses me off, and even though some of the mare well made, the sheer number of them compared to the number of any other type of skin bothers me. So what would you suggest I comment to tell them I don't like it? You're a mod so obviously you have good judgement, so I'll defer to that. What would you suggest?
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I actually read the post, hence why I said if you were given the option to review a downvote will lead people to saying "I can't downvote this crap submission and that's unfair!!!" Also, what one might think to be poor quality another might think to be high quality and vice versa. If a downvote system were put in place, maybe make it so that if something receives X downvotes in Y amount of time which would be a few couple seconds apart, it locks the post and alerts moderators to possible abuse? IDK, just an idea.
EDIT: As for the comment thing, I usually kindly point out what is wrong where and what could be improved. I try to avoid saying "that looks horrible" or "this sucks," because my opinion is going to be different from others so I comment from solely my point of view and not from the community at large.
EDIT: As for the comment thing, I usually kindly point out what is wrong where and what could be improved. I try to avoid saying "that looks horrible" or "this sucks," because my opinion is going to be different from others so I comment from solely my point of view and not from the community at large.
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I wasn't around in the downvote times. They sound like a good idea, but as you said, there are more cons than pros.
Enraric was saying that downvotes would be a way to get the teen skin rants off the reel, but the teen skin rants will die down, something gets popular and everyone tries to mimic it/keep it going to get as much attention and/or diamonds as the one who came up with it.
Reddit has downvotes and I think even though it says not to downvote based on opinion, people do.
It would be like having a dislike button on Facebook... o.o
As eagoy said, haters would downvote regardless of the quality of the submission, if they're jealous, they downvote.
If I like something, I diamond it. If it needs work, I diamond it and comment suggestions. If it isn't that good, well, I don't diamond it. I could comment suggestions though, and if it's improved, diamond it.
I know, as Enraric said in reply to Midnight, if 30 people diamond something and 300 don't, it gets to the pop reel. This is somewhat imbalanced but there's no way to correct it without bringing back the downvote and causing chaos, through haters. It would be a great thing if it were used as intended, but making sure it is used as intended would be too much trouble for moderators (As Jetra said, reviewing them. There would be so many requests to downvote, the moderators would be too busy to do other moderating stuff).
Also, as Jetra said, people would make alternate accounts, more than they do now, to downvote popular submissions and diamond their own.
If there are some popular things on the reel, then, they've been viewed and diamonded. If they really aren't that great, something will replace them soon (sooner than if the submission was really good, like a contest submission by Knightsabers. [Or anything of Knightsabers' for that matter xD]).
So, I don't think the pros are enough to bring the downvotes back, moderators know best, they're the ones that deal with us, and have been for a while. They know what's good for the community and what's bad, sometimes out of experience by using the idea for a time, and it not working well.
Enraric was saying that downvotes would be a way to get the teen skin rants off the reel, but the teen skin rants will die down, something gets popular and everyone tries to mimic it/keep it going to get as much attention and/or diamonds as the one who came up with it.
Reddit has downvotes and I think even though it says not to downvote based on opinion, people do.
It would be like having a dislike button on Facebook... o.o
As eagoy said, haters would downvote regardless of the quality of the submission, if they're jealous, they downvote.
If I like something, I diamond it. If it needs work, I diamond it and comment suggestions. If it isn't that good, well, I don't diamond it. I could comment suggestions though, and if it's improved, diamond it.
I know, as Enraric said in reply to Midnight, if 30 people diamond something and 300 don't, it gets to the pop reel. This is somewhat imbalanced but there's no way to correct it without bringing back the downvote and causing chaos, through haters. It would be a great thing if it were used as intended, but making sure it is used as intended would be too much trouble for moderators (As Jetra said, reviewing them. There would be so many requests to downvote, the moderators would be too busy to do other moderating stuff).
Also, as Jetra said, people would make alternate accounts, more than they do now, to downvote popular submissions and diamond their own.
If there are some popular things on the reel, then, they've been viewed and diamonded. If they really aren't that great, something will replace them soon (sooner than if the submission was really good, like a contest submission by Knightsabers. [Or anything of Knightsabers' for that matter xD]).
So, I don't think the pros are enough to bring the downvotes back, moderators know best, they're the ones that deal with us, and have been for a while. They know what's good for the community and what's bad, sometimes out of experience by using the idea for a time, and it not working well.
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You have no right to call this official if a PMC mod has not done so. Removed from title.
Also, I'm currently neutral on this. Don't necessarily support, but am not against it.
Also, I'm currently neutral on this. Don't necessarily support, but am not against it.
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AethrozEnraric If 30 people diamond a post, and 300 don't because they hate the post, that post will still get to the pop reel. This is a huge imbalance issue.
Like a post then.
Find a post and like it.
That's how you fix it. But if you and the 300 others just hate everything, that doesn't solve anything. Just brings about negativity.
I don't hate everything. I just dislike some of the stuff that's on the reel and I wish I could actually do something to affect that on top of leaving a comment. Liking other posts doesn't fix the representation issue, it just changes the number of posts that are popular. It doesn't fix the problem.
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Enraric If 30 people diamond a post, and 300 don't because they hate the post, that post will still get to the pop reel. This is a huge imbalance issue.
Like a post then.
Find a post and like it.
That's how you fix it. But if you and the 300 others just hate everything, that doesn't solve anything. Just brings about negativity.
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What eagoy said.
I wasn't around for down votes but I cannot see it being used how you plan it to be. Down-votes also create a negative aspect of the site which we stay away from by banning blacklisting, flame wars, arguments, etc
I wasn't around for down votes but I cannot see it being used how you plan it to be. Down-votes also create a negative aspect of the site which we stay away from by banning blacklisting, flame wars, arguments, etc
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Right, but if I dislike a post, I have no way to affect the posts representation here at PMC. If 30 people diamond a post, and 300 don't because they hate the post, that post will still get to the pop reel. This is a huge imbalance issue.
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I haven't been long enough around to say I was in the time of the downvotes on PMC.
But I do know on older threads from moderators and other people that it was abused the downvote system.
Personally I am against it. Including the part of a flag system which you suggested in the blog. It will only cause a s**t-load of extra work for the moderators I think. Not the mention that it seems they already often have hands short.
If people like the content they will diamond it, so you can see how much people like it. If I recall correctly the diamond system came as a replacement of the up/down-vote system.
Also the part on the pros last part of your blog, the haters will downvote it. In other words a post, regardless of the writing skill, objectiveness will receive downvotes while it is a quality blog. They are abusing the system then already.
Sorry for this non structurized post since I skimmed the blog from down to up and middle. But I am against it.
But I do know on older threads from moderators and other people that it was abused the downvote system.
Personally I am against it. Including the part of a flag system which you suggested in the blog. It will only cause a s**t-load of extra work for the moderators I think. Not the mention that it seems they already often have hands short.
If people like the content they will diamond it, so you can see how much people like it. If I recall correctly the diamond system came as a replacement of the up/down-vote system.
Also the part on the pros last part of your blog, the haters will downvote it. In other words a post, regardless of the writing skill, objectiveness will receive downvotes while it is a quality blog. They are abusing the system then already.
Sorry for this non structurized post since I skimmed the blog from down to up and middle. But I am against it.
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So I'm just gonna go point by point here:
The mods wouldn't review diamonds. They would review diamond trolls, but diamond trolls are probably also trolls elsewhere and so would come to the attention of the mods anyway.
Right, but there's not fair way to see if people dislike a post, which means that the popularity of posts could actually be grossly misrepresented. It would be like if you could vote Mitt Romney or not vote, and those were your only options. That would be dumb, wouldn't it?
Well if I see a blog that is excellently written but it's on something I disagree with and don't believe should receive recognition (like, I dunno, a pro-SOPA blog, for example) then yeah, it gets downvoted. That's how the system is supposed to work. Just because something is well made doesn't mean people will automatically like it. It just means it's well made.
I think people aren't understanding what having downvotes means. A downvote doesn't mean the work is low quality, or that it should be reported, etc. etc. It means that, for whatever reason. you dislike a post. Not that you just don't like it, that's just not voting at all, but that you specifically dislike it. Right now there's no way to differentiate the don't likes or the dislikes, or even to count that number at all. On PMC, you can either be positive or shut up, as it stands right now. I feel like that might be a violation of the 4th amendment. I think. I'm not really sure, I'm from Canada.
The mods wouldn't review diamonds. They would review diamond trolls, but diamond trolls are probably also trolls elsewhere and so would come to the attention of the mods anyway.
Right, but there's not fair way to see if people dislike a post, which means that the popularity of posts could actually be grossly misrepresented. It would be like if you could vote Mitt Romney or not vote, and those were your only options. That would be dumb, wouldn't it?
Well if I see a blog that is excellently written but it's on something I disagree with and don't believe should receive recognition (like, I dunno, a pro-SOPA blog, for example) then yeah, it gets downvoted. That's how the system is supposed to work. Just because something is well made doesn't mean people will automatically like it. It just means it's well made.
I think people aren't understanding what having downvotes means. A downvote doesn't mean the work is low quality, or that it should be reported, etc. etc. It means that, for whatever reason. you dislike a post. Not that you just don't like it, that's just not voting at all, but that you specifically dislike it. Right now there's no way to differentiate the don't likes or the dislikes, or even to count that number at all. On PMC, you can either be positive or shut up, as it stands right now. I feel like that might be a violation of the 4th amendment. I think. I'm not really sure, I'm from Canada.
