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It's not fair to judge skin contests based on diamonds they receive

12 emeralds20 replies626 views
created 09/21/2018 1:28 pm by skeddles
last reply 09/28/2018 6:21 am
People who have hundreds of followers are obviously going to get more diamonds. People who got lucky and posted at the right time are obviously going to get more diamonds. Whats the point of even having judges?
Posted by avatar
skeddles
Level 18 : Journeyman Modder
10

20 replies

2
09/28/2018 5:14 am
Level 33 Artisan Engineer
ShelLuser
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I think you're underestimating the PMC community. Because following your reasoning then someone with more followers would always "outperform" someone else with lesser followers yet that is not happening. I'm very proud to say that one of my first blog posts (tutorial on commands & command blocks) got 10 diamonds even though I had pretty much 0 followers at that time.

Right now I'm at 33 followers (<3 you guys!) but seriously: that doesn't mean they blindly reward all of my work with likes (diamonds or emeralds). And that's the way it should be, and quite frankly I seriously doubt that it would be any different within competitions.

Sure, some followers may like your stuff no matter what. But that can also be said for certain individuals who follow the competitions. For example: I have a tendency to like forum posts whenever I think the writer asks a very good or interesting question, and I know not too many people do that. But so what? ;)

I don't really see a problem here to be honest.
2
09/28/2018 6:08 am
Level 50 Grandmaster Terraformer
Ivain
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A lot of people browse through contest entries and diamond ones they like. In almost any project contest I participated in, people with way less followers than me have managed to get more diamonds.
If you're at a point where your followercount would make a difference, you'd be at the very bottom of the finalists anyway. Quality content will attract attention. Sure, you can help it by advertising it in places like /r/Minecraft, the Minecraft forums and similar places, but a lot of it comes from just this site.

For instance, the terraforming contest from a few months ago. I got 3rd place. The 2nd and 1st place both got a lot more diamonds than me, despite having less subscribers (in case of Consue, they only have 200-something, 3 times less), while the entry below me that had the same amount of followers as Barbarian got over 40 diamonds less.

Why? Because that's the quality of the work involved. This isnt a perfect metric, but still.

For instance, there's several skins in the finals whose creators only have 18 or so followers, only 10 more than you, yet they're in there too. There's also one in there with 5 subscribers, yet their entry can be said to be simply better than yours.

The solution is simple, really. Keep making INTERESTING skins. I'm not surprised so few people viewed yours, since they're used to you posting 'wireframe' skins, which aren't particularly interesting.
Your contest entry was the first interesting skin of all your submissions.


If you output one skin like that every week or something, you'll have a lot more interest.
1
09/28/2018 3:56 am
Level 6 Apprentice Dragon
Dragon_Tom005
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man, if it's judged based on diamonds, i wonder if a famous person could just make tons of skins and always win?

2
09/24/2018 9:38 am
Level 57 Grandmaster Cyborg
Knightsunder
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Good content gets enough diamonds to be finalist in 99% of cases, in my experience judging 4 contests and over 5 years. The skill differences at 1-5 diamonds range is so incremental and subjective that it's impossible to say that a certain skin or style is low effort compared to each other, since they're all fairly amateur and skins that do have quality technique, objectively, get more than 1-5 diamonds.
2
09/24/2018 8:12 am
Level 16 Journeyman Toast
mouse36
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There's a point in having judges, but I agree with the judging on diamonds. There should be criteria that are judged on, NOT by diamonds. I think diamonds are supposed to be similar to likes on PMC.
1
09/23/2018 4:16 am
Level 39 Artisan Pixel Puncher
TomConn
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It makes sense with the diamonds though.
The community choses who they want to see in the finals by giving diamonds. If you want to get in, then simply make a few ads for your skin around PMC, or ask your friends to go diamond your skin.

As soon as your skin is through to the finals, the judges take over, and from there just read what Ralex said :)
6
09/21/2018 10:29 pm
Level 51 Grandmaster Grump
Azie
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The only thing determined by diamonds are the finalists. Rankings after that are determined by our judges based on different categories of judging.

Advertise your entry effectively and you'll get more diamonds.
5
09/23/2018 2:44 pm
Level 18 Journeyman Modder
skeddles
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I shouldn't have to advertise my entry to a contest, then it's just an advertising contest and not a skin making contest.
2
09/28/2018 6:20 am
Level 50 Grandmaster Terraformer
Ivain
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The problem isn't really advertising. The problem is that people aren't used to seeing interesting skins from you. There's someone with 5 followers/subscribers that DID get into the final leaderboard. The big difference is that all their other skin submissions are interesting, when yours are.... not.
3
09/23/2018 3:18 pm
Level 51 Grandmaster Grump
Azie
avatar
Unfortunately, that's pretty unrealistic. Most people aren't going to go through the entire list to vote for the ones they like and-- depending on the number of entries which is completely unpredictable-- going through all of them is not going to be totally feasible for our judges.

Having a set number of entries our judges need to spend time evaluating helps them determine if they'll be able to judge for us or not more accurately and helps reduce the amount of time everyone needs to wait to see the final results. They're volunteers and it's incredibly difficult to find quality judges that also have time to judge our contests.

If you want people to see your entry, you need to advertise and make yourself stand out from everyone else in the Skins section, which is a LOT of people. Getting to the finalists doesn't necessarily mean you are required to advertise your submission, but it sure helps. I have a skin on my account with over 100 diamonds, which is totally uncharacteristic of all my other submissions. That skin has that many diamonds because I advertised it aggressively throughout the term of the contest it was in. People that have a large following already don't have to be as aggressive, but they more than likely had to be at some point to get that following.
8
09/21/2018 1:53 pm
Level 8 Apprentice Network
Ralex
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Diamonds are not the only way any contest we do is used to determine a winner.

Diamonds are just a very small part of it. Having a lot of diamonds doesn't mean you'll win at all.

  • Concept & Originality : Fresh, new ideas and crazy concepts! Try to do something new, differentiate yourself from the status quo and show us what you're made of.

  • Technique & Execution : Color, shape, texture - be sure your build flows together and represents what you are trying to accomplish.

  • Presentation & Experience : Presentation of a build can really help to make an impression. Be sure you've got good screenshots, spend some time on the post!

None of those are handled by diamonds, and each judge decides where they rank in their own view.
3
09/23/2018 2:46 pm
Level 18 Journeyman Modder
skeddles
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I'm not talking about winning, I'm talking about getting no views and not making the finalists while a bunch entries that are low-effort or don't even fit the theme do.
1
09/28/2018 6:21 am
Level 50 Grandmaster Terraformer
Ivain
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Your followers had nothing to do with it. There's people in the toy chest finals that have less followers than you. I recommend that instead of complaining, you keep practicing your skinning skills and participate in the next skin contest. Your contest entry had potential, sure, but it was the first of your submissions to have that.
3
09/21/2018 2:43 pm
Level 6 Apprentice Engineer
TobyTapper
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But that only applies if you make it to the finalist, which are chosen by diamonds and some other methods...
4
09/21/2018 4:18 pm
Level 36 Artisan Pixel Painter
DinowCookie
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Hosting contests isn't an easy thing to do, and judgement in them will always be unfair in a way.

The current system tries to balance out some objective and subjective factors to come to a fairy reasonable final leaderboard. In the end there is no way to actually judge a contest of creativity fairly, because everyone has a different idea of what is good and original, and what isn't.

In the end, the most important point of the contests on PMC is for people to have fun with a theme and to see various interpretations of the same theme come to life. Try not to let it bother you too much and try to just have some good fun when entering a contest instead. ^_^
4
09/21/2018 4:16 pm
Level 31 Artisan Pixel Painter
Cib
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During the entry and reviewing period, the community can vote for their favourite entries by giving a diamond to a submission. Judges may also diamond their favourite submissions which hold more weight.
At the end of the reviewing period, the site calculates the amount of diamonds each entry has to determine the 50 entries (or sometimes less if there is a low entry count) that will become finalists.

Each type of contest, whether it be a project, skin or blog, has its own list of aspects that entires will be judged upon. Diamonds do not influence the final results and placings of any contest as far as determining the finalists.

Furthermore, if you wish to make a complaint other than this one, you can submit a ticket at planetminecraft.com/tickets/.
2
09/21/2018 6:00 pm
Level 58 Grandmaster Lego Builder
Darth Feanor
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I just enter for the heck of it. I don't go in expecting to make finalist even so if I do then it's a total surprise.
Plus, those "participant" trophies are fun to see what they can make a tongue stick out of.
3
09/21/2018 3:06 pm
Level 27 Expert Archer
Jetra
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Diamonds are just the easiest way to determine a community's interest in a particular submission and agree they should not be the end-all.

That aside, I believe judge's diamonds weigh more which should push ones with less up a bit more. Unfortunately, they tend to stick to their own cliques that stagnates the pool. If there were a better way for them to be judged, I'd be all for it.

It's all just a popularity contest, nothing more. If any judge says they don't play favorites, they're lying through their teeth.
1
09/21/2018 3:44 pm
Level 13 Journeyman Dragonborn
Shady_Warlock
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there's 8 judges, they can take time out of their day(s) to review a bit more than just diamond favourited ones, and just skip the really bad and bland ones
2
09/21/2018 3:52 pm
Level 27 Expert Archer
Jetra
avatar
They can, they don't.

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