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Limitations for low lvl users
pens_and_pencils
Boomer
I suggest that we impose some limitations as to how many submissions new(er) members can upload daily. I think this will increase the quality of the entries significantly.
Especially the skins section would benefit from this.
For instance if a new user can upload only one thing in for any of the site's categories, it would be likely that the user wouldn't waste his entry on some gimmicky flavour of the month type post. But instead put more time and energy into his single post.
Of course this wouldn't apply to the ability to edit the entry.
The numbers are not set in stone, I use them just as an example.
lvl 1-5 : 1 submission daily in each category
lvl 5-10: 2 submissions " " " "
lvl 10-20: 3 submissions " " " "
and so on.
If a this idea already exist already, my apologies. But I didn't find a similar thread that proposes this.
Thoughts?
Especially the skins section would benefit from this.
For instance if a new user can upload only one thing in for any of the site's categories, it would be likely that the user wouldn't waste his entry on some gimmicky flavour of the month type post. But instead put more time and energy into his single post.
Of course this wouldn't apply to the ability to edit the entry.
The numbers are not set in stone, I use them just as an example.
lvl 1-5 : 1 submission daily in each category
lvl 5-10: 2 submissions " " " "
lvl 10-20: 3 submissions " " " "
and so on.
If a this idea already exist already, my apologies. But I didn't find a similar thread that proposes this.
Thoughts?
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I added a "What's Hot" browsing option. I'll probably tweak the algorithm as well as adjust for each section but the "Beta" version is live. It's not the default view and I don't plan on officially announcing it exists until watching what it does with the current site data.
Quick links:
Hottest New Projects
Hottest New Skins
Studnicky, I am thinking of tweaking the submission popularity calculation and will take your suggestions into consideration.
Quick links:
Hottest New Projects
Hottest New Skins
Studnicky, I am thinking of tweaking the submission popularity calculation and will take your suggestions into consideration.
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CyprezzI'm working on an alternative default browsing view which will tested on the skin section first. We will not lose the most recently updated or latest, but the default view will be heavily based on submission date & popularity.
I was browsing skins the other day, trying to figure out the way 'popularity' works. For instance, I noticed that some of my skins are "more popular" but have far less downloads than others. Clearly, the elements are weighted differently.
If you don't mind some conjecture and suggestion (and I hope you don't), here's what I've been thinking.
The up-vote/down-vote, as far as I've seen, is hardly used at all. Some of my skins already have over a hundred downloads, but less than 10 upvotes. It's like people don't even know it's there. I feel as though this element should be removed entirely, or weighted lower than all the rest.
When a user views a skin, but does not download it, what does that mean? It could mean any number of things - that they didn't like it upon seeing it up close, that they liked it, but have a better one, or that they were just perhaps clicking on things for inspiration for their own work. I therefore don't think views should be heavily weighted towards popularity.
Comments can be good. They can also be very, very bad. Someone might comment on a skin just to say that it's similar to their own (or another one), they might comment to suggest improvements to technique (I do this frequently while browsing) or point out mistakes, or they might even accuse a user of stealing someone else's work (funny story, have a look at my Ultramarine skin for more details). So, comments should be weighted relatively low.
When a user downloads a skin to their computer, it can mean that they either liked it, or that they wanted to sample portions (hopefully attributing the original artists as they do) for their own work. It could also mean that they pirated Minecraft (for shame!) and are going to upload the skin elsewhere for use on a pirate server's host. As such, direct downloads should be weighted above views, comments, and up/down-votes.
Favorites are always a good sign. A favorite can only mean that someone really liked the skin, and they either wanted to add it to a list of skins they cycle through, or they really, really just wanted the creator to know how great their work is. This should be a rather high weighted element.
When a user directly applies a skin via Minecraft.net, it means that they liked the skin enough to replace their current one. This should be the heaviest weighted element, as it is the clearest indication that whatever user directly applied the skin to their character absolutely loved the skin.
EDIT:: In addendum, it might be nice to have a 'highlights' algorithm that counters submission date (or days since submission) against the weighted popularity score on the skins page. The skins currently in the highlight haven't changed since I signed up for the site, and continue to gain even more popularity for being in the highlighted spot, effectively becoming titans against which another, better skin cannot hope to compete. Perhaps if you could write a script to highlight and cycle through the most popular skins in the last, say, 2 weeks, or 30 days, then other artists would get a good chance to show off their work.
CyprezzI'm working on several other technical things at the moment but hopefully this helps the discussion.
I really hope you're working on the broken-preview that only seems to happen to certain skins. I thought it might have something to do with transparency or layers, so I went through and tried a few things on my Assassin's Creed skins to get them to load properly for the previewer. Nothing seemed to help, and it only seems to affect those skins of mine in particular. I'm at a loss - those are some really nice skins, and I'd like if more people could see what I worked on in full detail.
pens_and_pencilsBut to be completely frank, you're an above average guy who hasn't done anything other people haven't already done. So, what's with all the boasting?
Just some friendly prodding. Your posts in this thread seem to waver back and forth on the importance of rank versus the quality of submitted content.
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Thx for replying cyprezz, and here I was thinking no one would notice or care.
Ultimately it's your site ( I assume), and how you want to run it is your business.
I just hope I created some awareness that will benefit the community.
An alternate mode of viewing seems like a fine improvement, and I can't wait to see how it will look or what effect if will eventually have.
Ultimately it's your site ( I assume), and how you want to run it is your business.
I just hope I created some awareness that will benefit the community.
An alternate mode of viewing seems like a fine improvement, and I can't wait to see how it will look or what effect if will eventually have.
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Great discussion. I'll say a few things:
There will not be a limit on uploads per day for new members. Some new members to the site are veterans to the game and Minecraft community, like Studnicky. There are also many people who enjoy creating skins and texture packs more than playing the game. I do see the otherside of it but feel it's far better to be treated equally. If any member submits stolen content they're warned and if they repeat they lose upload privileges for a day, week, month, forever depending on the situation, but it's their doing.
There also won't be a select few choosing what is worthy of the site. The community and moderators step in when the content is stolen or flat out spam. Otherwise, who is anyone to judge what another enjoys creating. This freedom of creativity is what makes Minecraft so amazing. We won't be censoring creativity.
That said, the skin section in particular has reached a rate of submission that makes it difficult for quality to rise out of the quantity. It's more than I thought, in past 24 hours we've seen 618 new skins! Holey... and it's likely going to increase. We can address this without limiting the current freedom of the site or having a select few filtering what is worthy. I'm working on an alternative default browsing view which will tested on the skin section first. We will not lose the most recently updated or latest, but the default view will be heavily based on submission date & popularity. Popularity is a combination of views, votes, downloads, favorites and comments. It will take some trial and error to get it to feel right, so I may launch it as an alternative browsing method for testing purposes rather than the default at first.
I'm working on several other technical things at the moment but hopefully this helps the discussion.
There will not be a limit on uploads per day for new members. Some new members to the site are veterans to the game and Minecraft community, like Studnicky. There are also many people who enjoy creating skins and texture packs more than playing the game. I do see the otherside of it but feel it's far better to be treated equally. If any member submits stolen content they're warned and if they repeat they lose upload privileges for a day, week, month, forever depending on the situation, but it's their doing.
There also won't be a select few choosing what is worthy of the site. The community and moderators step in when the content is stolen or flat out spam. Otherwise, who is anyone to judge what another enjoys creating. This freedom of creativity is what makes Minecraft so amazing. We won't be censoring creativity.
That said, the skin section in particular has reached a rate of submission that makes it difficult for quality to rise out of the quantity. It's more than I thought, in past 24 hours we've seen 618 new skins! Holey... and it's likely going to increase. We can address this without limiting the current freedom of the site or having a select few filtering what is worthy. I'm working on an alternative default browsing view which will tested on the skin section first. We will not lose the most recently updated or latest, but the default view will be heavily based on submission date & popularity. Popularity is a combination of views, votes, downloads, favorites and comments. It will take some trial and error to get it to feel right, so I may launch it as an alternative browsing method for testing purposes rather than the default at first.
I'm working on several other technical things at the moment but hopefully this helps the discussion.
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You're right, if (some) people put more effort into their skins and took some pride in their work, there'd be no need for this post.
In fact the only reason I made it was to try and help the community to improve.
(That being said, this is obviously a losing battle.)
Not because I'm jealous or spitefull of anyone's accomplishments.
I have bigger concerns than whether or not someone has more success than me on the internet.
But to be completely frank, you're an above average guy who hasn't done anything
other people haven't already done. So, what's with all the boasting?
In fact the only reason I made it was to try and help the community to improve.
(That being said, this is obviously a losing battle.)
Not because I'm jealous or spitefull of anyone's accomplishments.
I have bigger concerns than whether or not someone has more success than me on the internet.
But to be completely frank, you're an above average guy who hasn't done anything
other people haven't already done. So, what's with all the boasting?
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So I must be more than above average then as most of the skins I have made aren't some of the popular ones that have over 9000 different variations then.
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pens_and_pencilsGo make some more creeper skins, you'll "surpass" me tomorrow.
Over 60 skins uploaded, 6 of which are creepers. That's less than 10% of my work. Perhaps if everyone did creeper skins as well as I do, then you wouldn't be so upset about the garbage posts anyway?
Besides, sometimes you just have to give the people what they want, pens. I am, after all, a skinner by request. You'd be lying if you said I was bad at what I do. You said it best...
pens_and_pencils...don't forget cream always rises to the top.
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Studnicky ... rank does not correlate directly to skill at skinning ...
P.S. - More downloads than you now, and a higher view-to-download ratio. I'll outrank you in a week.
*slow clap*
Go make some more creeper skins, you'll "surpass" me tomorrow.
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pens_and_pencilsStudnicky By making the points given from negative reviews subtract from their exp pool.
Is that how it works, or is it a suggestion? Anyway, I haven't noticed its effect.
No, that's not how it works. That was a suggestive answer to your question of how to make it so that people wouldn't simply flood the site with garbage to outrank each other. It would, however, open up the door to 'leaderboard abuse'.
pens_and_pencilsStudnicky Also, what do you care? It's not a race, you said so yourself
Perhaps I should clarify that. If someone is looking for skins through the leaderboard and the people above you, outranking you, did so by posting dozens of Honeydew skins and generic guys with slightly different shirts, the searcher'll probably give up before he reaches someone who truly put some effort into it.
Looking through the leaderboard for skins is a silly concept. Who does that? I just went and tried it, and yeah, I can say with 100% certainty that rank does not correlate directly to skill at skinning, and that users trying to use the leaderboard to find skins they want is just ridiculous. That's what tags are for.
P.S. - More downloads than you now, and a higher view-to-download ratio. I'll outrank you in a week.
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Studnicky By making the points given from negative reviews subtract from their exp pool.
Is that how it works, or is it a suggestion? Anyway, I haven't noticed its effect.
Studnicky Also, what do you care? It's not a race, you said so yourself
Perhaps I should clarify that. If someone is looking for skins through the leaderboard and the people above you, outranking you, did so by posting dozens of Honeydew skins and generic guys with slightly different shirts, the searcher'll probably give up before he reaches someone who truly put some effort into it.
And did you really think it would only take two sentences before I would start contradicting myself?
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pens_and_pencilsStudnicky ... but had a large number of skins I had done on request. If I had only been able to post one a day, I would still be level 1-2.
There is no rush. They aren't handing out prizes. Besides, this game is still in beta, and will probably stay that way for a while, so there is plenty of time to do and post anything you want.
I think you missed the point on that one. Having to upload a large batch of skins would take weeks, and would discourage people in similar situations from putting their work up on the site. My intuition tells me that we would see MORE of the "purple creeper in a suits" and less of the good stuff.
pens_and_pencilsAnd Jack, how will they learn when negative ratings are meaningless, and they could outrank you by simply posting more?
By making the points given from negative reviews subtract from their exp pool. Also, what do you care? It's not a race, you said so yourself
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They are not so easy to ignore when for every good skin you have to go through 15 pages of mediocrity.
And Jack, how will they learn when negative ratings are meaningless, and they could outrank you by simply posting more?
And Jack, how will they learn when negative ratings are meaningless, and they could outrank you by simply posting more?
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Well, one flawed solution would be to have high-ranking skins/project/etc. placed higher up in their respective sections above others. I.e: best on the first page, worst last.
But as you can see, from doing that method, only the high ranking uploads will only remain at the high end, pushing everything else back without giving the other uploads a chance.
A solution to this: give users settings to view High Rated, Lowest Rated, Recently Uploaded, Old Uploads, and other that can change the listings.
But as you can see, from doing that method, only the high ranking uploads will only remain at the high end, pushing everything else back without giving the other uploads a chance.
A solution to this: give users settings to view High Rated, Lowest Rated, Recently Uploaded, Old Uploads, and other that can change the listings.
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Grizzly has a good point. I think we dont necessarily have to limit uploads. If you see an upload you dont like, simply dont give the owner a download or comment. If the whole community does this, most of the "bad" projects will be ignored, and the creators of those projects will learn that posting mass quantities of bad projects will not make them popular with the community.
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Yes, it isn't a race. But it doesn't agree with the purpose of being able to post what you want, when you want. I am a skin maker myself, and I want to be able to post them when I make them, especially when I get a request.
And anyway, I don't think it will decrease copied skins very much. The majority of the people who copy the skins just copy the skins. They don't actually make anything themselves. They wouldn't put any more thought into it, they'll just say, "Okay, my copied skin of the day!"
And anyway, I don't think it will decrease copied skins very much. The majority of the people who copy the skins just copy the skins. They don't actually make anything themselves. They wouldn't put any more thought into it, they'll just say, "Okay, my copied skin of the day!"
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I think that pens_and_pencil's idea is kind of flawed. The whole purpose of Planet Minecraft is for uploading and sharing your works. If you limit how many works you can submit a day, it defeats the purpose of the site.
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Not necessarily. To defeat the purpose of the site, you would have to be disabled the ability to upload and share your works.
Limiting as to how many uploads you can upload and share wouldn't be against the purpose, since you are still able to upload and share.
UNLESS there was a slogan to say "Planet Minecraft: Where you can upload and share your creations.. SIKE!"
(Just from the way you worded it jack, I had to mess with you a bit. xD)
HOWEVER..
It wouldn't be impossible to regulate what's being uploaded, separating good quality works as compared to bad / copied works, but it would take some man power and time if it was only meant for a small selected group to do.. But, that is why normal users also have a report feature, so we are able to report mistakes/spam/duplicates/inappropriate/unoriginal/incomplete/update log abuse/remix texture packs/other.
Let people upload what they will, how much they want. If people upload some bad projects/skins/what have you, then don't give them any satisfaction (comments, votes, etc.)
pens_and_pencils, we may not be able to report 'bad' uploads (which is opinionated), but we don't have to acknowledge them at all either.
Limiting as to how many uploads you can upload and share wouldn't be against the purpose, since you are still able to upload and share.
UNLESS there was a slogan to say "Planet Minecraft: Where you can upload and share your creations.. SIKE!"
(Just from the way you worded it jack, I had to mess with you a bit. xD)
HOWEVER..
It wouldn't be impossible to regulate what's being uploaded, separating good quality works as compared to bad / copied works, but it would take some man power and time if it was only meant for a small selected group to do.. But, that is why normal users also have a report feature, so we are able to report mistakes/spam/duplicates/inappropriate/unoriginal/incomplete/update log abuse/remix texture packs/other.
Let people upload what they will, how much they want. If people upload some bad projects/skins/what have you, then don't give them any satisfaction (comments, votes, etc.)
pens_and_pencils, we may not be able to report 'bad' uploads (which is opinionated), but we don't have to acknowledge them at all either.
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SafetyMooseThe simple solution ...
It's not a bad idea, but it would take quite a bit of time and effort to sift though them. And I don't think the mods would be up for such a timely endeavour.
It would be perfect for a "hall of fame" type section though.
Thank you for your input.
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The simple solution to preventing useless content uploads would be to have a system where everyone under a certain level can submit as much as they want, however it will not be shown publicly until it has been reviewed by a small team of quality control admins. Then, once its approved it can be seen in public. Then either after a certain level or at the moderator teams discretion the member can have free display rights.
Also, these moderators could have the ability to lock the display rights of any user if caught posting copied or ripped off work. So that everything they submit must be reviewed before it can be seen again.
Also, these moderators could have the ability to lock the display rights of any user if caught posting copied or ripped off work. So that everything they submit must be reviewed before it can be seen again.
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I still think it's funny that people would post crap to level up.
#1 it doesn't MEAN anything (but it IS fun)
#2 you'll never be able to beat Scuttles no matter what (because Scuttles is DA BOSS)
I just post a lot of messages in the forum and I level like crazy.
#1 it doesn't MEAN anything (but it IS fun)
#2 you'll never be able to beat Scuttles no matter what (because Scuttles is DA BOSS)
I just post a lot of messages in the forum and I level like crazy.
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Just to clarify things, this wouldn't apply to the forums. That wouldn't make sense.
Also about the example numbers I used, they were just that ... examples.
Another advantage, I didn't think about this before but, this would greatly hinder any attempts to spam.
What is the problem with that? It's not a race, there is no rush to post as much as you can as fast as you can. And if your skins are awesome today, they'll be awesome tomorrow. Besides, how many lvl1 users have "awesome" skins?
You shouldn't get the bulk of your points by only posting stuff. Comments/ratings/votes/views/dl ought to be the main way of lvling.
Also about the example numbers I used, they were just that ... examples.
Another advantage, I didn't think about this before but, this would greatly hinder any attempts to spam.
ExcisionI disagree, let's say your level one and you just made a few awesome skins, you need to wait 5Days >.>
What is the problem with that? It's not a race, there is no rush to post as much as you can as fast as you can. And if your skins are awesome today, they'll be awesome tomorrow. Besides, how many lvl1 users have "awesome" skins?
sager2210And the only way to get up levels is by posting stuff and getting comments
if you dont then you dont get up levels obs
You shouldn't get the bulk of your points by only posting stuff. Comments/ratings/votes/views/dl ought to be the main way of lvling.
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Studnicky ... but had a large number of skins I had done on request. If I had only been able to post one a day, I would still be level 1-2.
There is no rush. They aren't handing out prizes. Besides, this game is still in beta, and will probably stay that way for a while, so there is plenty of time to do and post anything you want.
Studnicky
I was able to dump all 40+ of them here, (each of which is unique and hand-made) and was immediately recognized for my talent at skinning, and already outrank some members here who have been working on skins exclusively for this site for a much longer time. I have half as many skin downloads registered from this site as you do, OP
Relax fella, you're not King Minecraft just yet.
Half as many downloads, but twice as many skins. So those numbers don't quite add up.
StudnickyPeople are going to make "purple creeper in a suit" skins all day, every day ...
Maybe, but they'd be greatly reduced in volume.
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Not a good idea, so many people would leave PlanetMinecraft (including myself)
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I see how in a few ways this would work, and be effective as a lot of low level people make random and fake projects - however, it would prevent those people who are serious in their gaming to level up and show that they are good, true members as well. Not a stupid idea, but one that would not end up being good for the community.
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Thank you for the feedback.
But don't forget cream always rises to the top.
But don't forget cream always rises to the top.
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Generally just a stupid idea.
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I'm new and I would leave right away if this restriction existed. It would destroy the purpose of Planet Mincraft.
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I moved here from the official forums just a few days ago (those guys got rather annoying) but had a large number of skins I had done on request. If I had only been able to post one a day, I would still be level 1-2. Instead, I was able to dump all 40+ of them here, (each of which is unique and hand-made) and was immediately recognized for my talent at skinning, and already outrank some members here who have been working on skins exclusively for this site for a much longer time. If you care to look - I have half as many skin downloads registered from this site as you do, OP, after just five days, and that's not even counting the downloads from other sites I have uploaded my skins to, or from my thread on the official forums where I simply had imageshack links and no way to track downloads. The current system works and I cannot see quite how your suggested changes would help anything.
People are going to make "purple creeper in a suit" skins all day, every day, and post them, just because that's what they feel like making. They're going to copy and steal skins and modify just a few pixels, then re-post them with a slightly different name. That's the nature of the internet. Hell, when I moved to this site, two of my skins had already been stolen and posted here. All you can do is smile and nod.
The only real complaint I have with the current system is that the mods have not yet responded to the reports I filed and taken down or re-attributed the skins to my account.
People are going to make "purple creeper in a suit" skins all day, every day, and post them, just because that's what they feel like making. They're going to copy and steal skins and modify just a few pixels, then re-post them with a slightly different name. That's the nature of the internet. Hell, when I moved to this site, two of my skins had already been stolen and posted here. All you can do is smile and nod.
The only real complaint I have with the current system is that the mods have not yet responded to the reports I filed and taken down or re-attributed the skins to my account.
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dude this sucks if they did that i woud so leave planetminecraft
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I like it how it is now So us level 1's can stay awesome
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YEAH! this dude is correct
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Maybe if you changed it to Projects so people dont upload a ton of Horiible pixel art
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You made me cry in a corner after i read this.... :'( but ive gave up on it now
Now my actual point, No offense but this idea kinda sucks xP when i first joined i had loads of really old skins and projects which i posted,but if this rule applied then i would still be posting now (But when i joined we didn't have level and exp )
Now my actual point, No offense but this idea kinda sucks xP when i first joined i had loads of really old skins and projects which i posted,but if this rule applied then i would still be posting now (But when i joined we didn't have level and exp )
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And the only way to get up levels is by posting stuff and getting comments
if you dont then you dont get up levels obs
if you dont then you dont get up levels obs
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I disagree, let's say your level one and you just made a few awesome skins, you need to wait 5Days >.>
