Thread is derailed and begun to blacklist individuals.

There has also been a very steady stream of responses made that edge on not being respectful of others.
We encourage conversations, but on the condition that everyone remains respectful.

Finally, if you don't have a response to make that is constructive (disagreement can still be constructive), then don't say anything. Making jabbing little comments at others only riles up the whole situation.

/locked

I'm just gonna wait until they post some clarifications or back peddle. They almost always do one or the other.

Just a request, can we all ignore -snip-. Nothing but trouble.

Josephpica
YouTube heroes is the worst thing ever.
People get mad at me and tell me to chill, while AnimeFanFTW grabs a cute little animation on some new plan YouTube has that will make a community work together and then creates a forum post about how it's the "Worst thing ever."
Then he's like "I just want people to discuss these things "
Now you understand why I would be mad?

No, not really.

And in regards to your second post, why shouldn't he be able to state his opinion? Just because he's the OP doesn't mean that his opinion should automatically become invalid. He can state what he thinks about it, while simultaneously having others state how they feel about it, preferably without all the snide comments but that's probably not gonna happen anywhere.

AnimeFanFTWAs I've said before, the fact Youtube are gonna give moderator ranks to random people on the site is pretty worrying, considering the Youtube community can be very immature.

They're not giving random people moderator ranks, have you even been reading the stuff said before? You literally have zero insight on how YouTube's screening process for promoting is going to work, yet you complain about it.

If someone started complaining on this forum on how PMC moderators are chosen, would that be taken seriously? No it won't, because it's most likely nonsense what they claim since they don't know anything about how mods are picked here.

For example, let me rephrase your argument a bit to apply to PMC:
"As I've said before, the fact Planet Minecraft is gonna give moderator ranks to random people on the site is pretty worrying, considering the Minecraft community can be very immature."

What a surprise, it sounds like total nonsense :O.

Also, your posts was not informative. I was able to gather a lot more information than you gave.

Let's hope that in the future people learn to not just jump on the hate bandwagon immediately, to let others try out new stuff and to only judge beforehand if they know all the details. But that's probably too much to ask.

I Know I Hate The New TOS Of Youtube Its So Cancerous

JosephpicaYouTube heroes is the worst thing ever.
People get mad at me and tell me to chill, while AnimeFanFTW grabs a cute little animation on some new plan YouTube has that will make a community work together and then creates a forum post about how it's the "Worst thing ever."
Then he's like "I just want people to discuss these things "
Now you understand why I would be mad?

Here's the thing: I don't think any of us understand why you would be mad. It's a forum post, about a feature on a website that didn't go over well. I don't understand why anyone would be mad. You're handling all of this so poorly, if you're so upset about it at least back yourself up without making so many personal attacks and being such a hypocrite when arguing with people. Then just maybe people will understand why you're mad.

ChronIf you're going to be sarcastic, don't post anything. Literally just hinders discussion, and it's not funny any more. k? k. And if you see sarcasm, don't respond to it, you're just as bad, if not worse.

I'm not funny and never said I was.
You want to know why i use "sarcasm"? That's the way I express myself, and if you don't like it, well, too bad. I'll continue to do this until it breaks PMC LAW.

I'm personally content with waiting and seeing how this plays out. I know how toxic the Youtube community is, so I see how the community mod system could fail, but at the same time, it sounds like Youtube has screening processes for new mods, so it should counter-act the toxicity. I can see both sides of the debate, and both sides have merit.

If you want to post a forum in which other people express their opinions, pst the pros and cons of the subject and keep your opinion out of it. Then ask us ,what we think about it, and like add a poll or something.

AnimeFanFTW

candlevera

AnimeFanFTW
I never meant to have the title be clickbait. When I make a forum post, I always tend to make my short version of my opinion on a topic be in the title. I should have worded my title a bit better, and I should have added the subtitles part that I do mention later on, but in terms of the OP itself, I think I put my opinion on it pretty well.

No offense intended, but even so, putting strong opinion in a title can be pretty inflammatory and makes certain people a bit too defensive. I actually like plenty of the threads you've made even though I often disagree because they're actual discussions rather than more help requests or "Hey, check out my ___" posts, but I think it'd make for a better environment if they were more neutral. A lot of people have a huge focus on the titles of articles or threads, too, and immediately try to "Debunk" the title instead of focusing on the content within the post. It's their own fault, of course, but it'd be helpful if titles were kept a bit more neutral.

Trust me, after what has happened here over the past day, I thinking of just sticking to neutral titles from now on.
I don't handle arguments well. I often get stressed out easily, and it makes me paranoid. Best that I try to avoid it. xD

YouTube heroes is the worst thing ever.
People get mad at me and tell me to chill, while AnimeFanFTW grabs a cute little animation on some new plan YouTube has that will make a community work together and then creates a forum post about how it's the "Worst thing ever."
Then he's like "I just want people to discuss these things "
Now you understand why I would be mad?

When speaking of Youtube, "accurately" and "reporting videos" do not belong in the same sentence. -_-

Azrath
On reddit we usually put /s at the end of the reply if we are sarcastic, now why not make it a trend on PMC?

Whenever I try to post something sarcastic, I just add this at the end: </sarcasm>. Works well.

can we have a nice civilized discussion for once without people complaining how this is just "another rant post that won't change anything"?

EntG1
You totally missed the sarcasm... lol.

To be fair, sarcasm is pretty hard to catch when you're reading text.
It's not like italicized text makes it more sarcastic or anything.[/quote]

On reddit we usually put /s at the end of the reply if we are sarcastic, now why not make it a trend on PMC?

candlevera

AnimeFanFTW
I never meant to have the title be clickbait. When I make a forum post, I always tend to make my short version of my opinion on a topic be in the title. I should have worded my title a bit better, and I should have added the subtitles part that I do mention later on, but in terms of the OP itself, I think I put my opinion on it pretty well.

No offense intended, but even so, putting strong opinion in a title can be pretty inflammatory and makes certain people a bit too defensive. I actually like plenty of the threads you've made even though I often disagree because they're actual discussions rather than more help requests or "Hey, check out my ___" posts, but I think it'd make for a better environment if they were more neutral. A lot of people have a huge focus on the titles of articles or threads, too, and immediately try to "Debunk" the title instead of focusing on the content within the post. It's their own fault, of course, but it'd be helpful if titles were kept a bit more neutral.

Trust me, after what has happened here over the past day, I thinking of just sticking to neutral titles from now on.
I don't handle arguments well. I often get stressed out easily, and it makes me paranoid. Best that I try to avoid it. xD

AnimeFanFTW
I never meant to have the title be clickbait. When I make a forum post, I always tend to make my short version of my opinion on a topic be in the title. I should have worded my title a bit better, and I should have added the subtitles part that I do mention later on, but in terms of the OP itself, I think I put my opinion on it pretty well.

No offense intended, but even so, putting strong opinion in a title can be pretty inflammatory and makes certain people a bit too defensive. I actually like plenty of the threads you've made even though I often disagree because they're actual discussions rather than more help requests or "Hey, check out my ___" posts, but I think it'd make for a better environment if they were more neutral. A lot of people have a huge focus on the titles of articles or threads, too, and immediately try to "Debunk" the title instead of focusing on the content within the post. It's their own fault, of course, but it'd be helpful if titles were kept a bit more neutral.

Chron1. AnimeFanFTW, if you want to have the most level-headed discussion on a topic that you can, structure the OP to have as little bias as possible. Keep the titles neutral and less clickbait-y. Yes, you're still welcome to have your opinion in the OP, but take the time to introduce the topic with a completely neutral stance, and then proceed to write out your opinion.

I never meant to have the title be clickbait. When I make a forum post, I always tend to make my short version of my opinion on a topic be in the title. I should have worded my title a bit better, and I should have added the subtitles part that I do mention later on, but in terms of the OP itself, I think I put my opinion on it pretty well.

Meh, seems like a good idea to me. I like the idea of action actually being taken, and yeah, there will be a few bad apples, but for the most part I think they can find some decent people. Also, I love the opposing claims on how the whole ToS controversy went down. Y'all should link sources when it comes to that kind of thing.

Anyways, I've got a couple of cents for these discussion threads that apply to most of the participants.

1. AnimeFanFTW, if you want to have the most level-headed discussion on a topic that you can, structure the OP to have as little bias as possible. Keep the titles neutral and less clickbait-y. Yes, you're still welcome to have your opinion in the OP, but take the time to introduce the topic with a completely neutral stance, and then proceed to write out your opinion.

2. Josephpica/others with a similar mindset, chill out with the "edgy" personal attacks. Sure, these threads get old, but if you're having to resort to personal attacks in your initial argument, maybe you should just find another thread. Keep your argument in line with the topic. And speaking of lines, they don't have edges. So being edgy doesn't have a place in this debate format.

3. "I agree" posts literally contribute nothing. Don't post them unless you have reasoning as to why you agree.

4. If you're going to be sarcastic, don't post anything. Literally just hinders discussion, and it's not funny any more. k? k. And if you see sarcasm, don't respond to it, you're just as bad, if not worse.

5. Like I said earlier, providing sources for your claims might help these arguments go faster and be more constructive. I have no idea where half of you are pulling your arguments from and I almost want to know.

Hope this helps make these discussions more constructive. Because right now, they're just plain sad.

Boy, YouTube drama sure makes people sassy.

Yeah, I don't really like the idea of YouTube heroes. The captioning thing seems fine, but the psudeo mods thing doesn't seem like a good idea. I kinda see where they're going with it, but I honestly don't think it's gonna work. It's either gonna fall to the wayside or crash and burn.

AnimeFanFTW

Havingfun_ISKEY

AnimeFanFTW
I'm just posting these to start discussions. :/

And how's that working out?

Working out well, actually. Furry pointed out a video of someone with a plan that would make the service alot better.

*Is addressed about the entire post.*

*Points out one example.*

Havingfun_ISKEY

AnimeFanFTW

Josephpica
Oh, you think?

You need to calm down, man.
I'm just posting these to start discussions. :/

And how's that working out?

Working out well, actually. Furry pointed out a video of someone with a plan that would make the service alot better.

candlevera
The other two "jobs," subtitles and helping those on the forums, are great! Being rewarded for helping out a few random people on the forums is a pretty good idea. It'd encourage more people to help out (And remind others that their forums are an actual thing that exists.) It's a pretty positive change that could help a lot of people.

The subtitles thing looks great, too. I really like having subtitles on and it'd be super cool to have those. I'd even like to contribute subtitles to smaller channels to help out a bit, too. It can help people view videos when they can watch but cannot listen, and, beyond that, it's a great addition for the deaf and hard of hearing, who miss out on a ton of content.

I also agree. When I saw the video and saw the contribute subtitles part, I thought "That's a pretty cool idea."
A vast majority of videos have no subtitles, and Youtube's automated subtitle system, while can be pretty funny in its translations, isn't very accurate, so to see a system like that would be great.

Too bad the rest of the video proceeded to happen.

Jo, pls chill.

Anyway, in response to the whole "What good can it do?" thing...

- People are more likely to report videos that break rules instead of arguing petulantly in the comments, achieving nothing.

- False reports give nothing. More on this in pastebin link below.

- Really long list of things YouTube has said on the topic incoming -

Pastebin link

What this means is that if people legitimately abuse the system, their accounts can be cancelled and they aren't permitted to just start switching accounts or keeping their points or anything of the sort. Reaching Rank 3 just to mass flag videos seems incredibly time-consuming and fairly unrealistic. Since they are going to be checking submissions to make sure they aren't "gamed," it seems highly unlikely that you're going to have hordes of people mass flagging at rank 3 considering the time and effort that goes into it. And hey, if they did put in *that* much effort just to be a troll and lose their position after... I honestly don't think it's that bad. They would have put in far more positive effort than anything else. Spamming videos with flags would inevitably be found and eliminated, and assuming google isn't being a complete idiot, all would be back to normal.

I honestly don't see how anyone could spend most of their time getting points through flagging videos. There's not a hell of a lot of reportable content and the little there is comes from small channels and can be very difficult to find.

So... All that being said, I think it's fair to say it's pretty "even." It has the potential to be good if google isn't being an idiot that day but it won't do much good either. However...

The other two "jobs," subtitles and helping those on the forums, are great! Being rewarded for helping out a few random people on the forums is a pretty good idea. It'd encourage more people to help out (And remind others that their forums are an actual thing that exists.) It's a pretty positive change that could help a lot of people.

The subtitles thing looks great, too. I really like having subtitles on and it'd be super cool to have those. I'd even like to contribute subtitles to smaller channels to help out a bit, too. It can help people view videos when they can watch but cannot listen, and, beyond that, it's a great addition for the deaf and hard of hearing, who miss out on a ton of content.

I think those two things tilt the balance towards it being a good thing, even with the potential for abuse. This potential abuse is an extant problem, but, honestly? It's not much bigger than it is now. Anyone can fraudulently report or file copyright strikes against videos right now if they want to. It's the same thing, only it requires much more work to "earn" your ability to be more annoying with mass flags.

While I seem pretty positive about it, I do have genuine problems with the system. For one, the points you accrue mean virtually nothing. It's kind of scummy to get a bunch of randoms to do your work for you instead of hiring moderators. It's pretty clear this was exactly their intent, too. They have been having a ton of issues with automated systems and likely figured people could do it better.

But hiring people costs money; Ergo, let's get a bunch of randoms to do it and give them some points that give them a few abilities that make it a little easier. That's a lovely idea that isn't exploiting people in the least.

Personally, I'd like to see contributors get individually recognized and be able to earn something tangible. Youtube's a big site and it's time consuming doing any 3 of the Hero roles. Hard-working Heroes do deserve something for their effort. While they're not employees, having a reward for tangible work done would be cool. Whether that be monetary or otherwise, I can't really say, but I do know the current rewards feel like they're exploiting others' hard work.

That's really all I have to say about it. Honestly, it's pretty tiny. It's not a huge deal and there's not much I see to "go after" or freak out about it being THE BEST/WORST THING EVER. It's too small of a change for me to see it making any significant impact. Youtube has done far worse which did far less than what people think this is going to do.

[deleted]

Pepijn

So, for now, do I think this is a bad idea? I don't. I think it's a nice idea to let people help cleaning up the comments etc. YouTube realized that there's too much content for them to moderate on their own and decided to give the community a chance to help, but instead of just making these volunteers work for nothing they can gain cool benefits by doing a good job.

Same. I enjoy YouTube heros.

I'm with Having Fun on dis one. I'm tired of the complaining. The world's gonna end, cuz obama. The world's gonna end cuz of dis new update. Minecraft's dying! Things cost too much etc . . .
We're still here. The earth is still here. And all the updates that were supposed to screw anything up have come and nothing has happened. Also, I hate people who complain, just putting it out there.

And I hate Anime. :I

Josephpica. The point of posting this on a Minecraft forum is for everyone to discuss it. Once again I have to agree with AnimeFanFTW like I did on the Demonetization stuff. Well, thats another nail in the coffin probably.

I'm willing to bet to continue their "advertiser friendly" campaign, if more people report, they can tell investors the campaign is being successful, and get more money.

Although this doesn't seem like a good idea to me, as it's hard to make money if you piss off your entire user base. My website destruction senses are tingling.

Classier

Torrum

AzrathYou totally missed the sarcasm... lol.

I didn't miss anything. If you couldn't tell, I was actually acknowledging it and adding my own sarcastic message. Looks like you missed the sarcasm, m8.

"Ah yes, but my message was indeed, sarcastic. You just missed it"

Sarcasmeption?

Another rant made by the same person about the same thing.
Let YouTube do what they want. I doubt that petty rants on a Minecraft fansite are going to help your cause.
Why not try to contact YouTube about it, or use social media to try and attract their attention. From the day that I came to PMC, you've been complaining about what YouTube always does wrong. It if bugs you so much, just stop watching YouTube! Your constant whining on here clearly hasn't been helping you, so I'm not sure I know why you keep doing it. Let YouTube just try this new proccess out and if it ends up causing problems they can fix it. It's really not that bad. Don't take YouTube, or even Google, for granted. That's a huge mistake on your part.

Torrum

AzrathYou totally missed the sarcasm... lol.

I didn't miss anything. If you couldn't tell, I was actually acknowledging it and adding my own sarcastic message. Looks like you missed the sarcasm, m8.

"Ah yes, but my message was indeed, sarcastic. You just missed it"

Azrath

Torrum

Classier
I'll mass flag every DramaAlert, LeafyIsHere, and prank video! Not because they're bad, but because I don't like them!!
Genius idea, YouTube!

Im with you man, lets take down Leafy and Keemstar once and for all! WE WILL RULE YOUTUBE!!!

You totally missed the sarcasm... lol.

I didn't miss anything. If you couldn't tell, I was actually acknowledging it and adding my own sarcastic message. Looks like you missed the sarcasm, m8.

I'm beginning to think that everyone brings this minute subject up because they have nothing better to spend their time doing. Ah well, I'll jump on the train anyway.

I don't use YouTube for much else besides a handful of music channels, satirical or informational channels such as E.W.W and ScreenRant, or just wasting time watching "crack vids". If you're so sure that this is going to negatively affect YouTube, your favorite channels, or your own channels, then move to another outlet instead of complaining about the changes happening to it. For music there is Spotify, and for recording/streaming there is Twitch. Don't get me wrong, those aren't even close to the level of popularity or convenience of YouTube, but if you want them to know how "stupid" or "poorly conceived" their updates are, then hurt them in their consumer level.

If YouTube keeps on slipping up on such small things, everyone will move over to another content sharing platform and YouTube will be forgotten. They need to step up their game and put in some more solid foundations concerning what is considered to be 'abusive'.

Azrath

Torrum

Classier
I'll mass flag every DramaAlert, LeafyIsHere, and prank video! Not because they're bad, but because I don't like them!!
Genius idea, YouTube!

Im with you man, lets take down Leafy and Keemstar once and for all! WE WILL RULE YOUTUBE!!!

You totally missed the sarcasm... lol.

To be fair, sarcasm is pretty hard to catch when you're reading text.
It's not like italicized text makes it more sarcastic or anything.

Torrum

Classier
I'll mass flag every DramaAlert, LeafyIsHere, and prank video! Not because they're bad, but because I don't like them!!
Genius idea, YouTube!

Im with you man, lets take down Leafy and Keemstar once and for all! WE WILL RULE YOUTUBE!!!

You totally missed the sarcasm... lol.

To be honest, I really like the idea of Youtube Heroes.

Pepijn

AnimeFanFTW

PepijnWhat Pepjin said

Stuff here

A bunch of words lol

The fact that there is ifs and maybes is the exact reason I'm worried this system will fail spectacularly. As I've said before, the fact Youtube are gonna give moderator ranks to random people on the site is pretty worrying, considering the Youtube community can be very immature.

And I did keep my post informative, just look at my last post. I gave my reasons why it's a bad idea. And the only benefits I can really see coming out of this is that more videos will have subtitles in them (which I think is a pretty awesome benefit, not gonna lie). I keep looking at the whole Youtube Heroes program, and see little good coming out of it. For my reasons why, again, I already gave me reasons.

Pepijn
Stuff.

Kintra
Stuff.

Agree. Thank you very much for being reasonable and constructive on this topic, something I see very rarely when it comes you YouTube. Before, people were complaining, often rightfully, if in an INCREDIBLY overblown manner about how YouTube's automated system was broken. Now they're at the very least, TRYING to fix that problem.

The idea is that random people can intentionally cause damage, I suppose, and this is a reasonable consideration. But believing that it's DEFINITELY going to happen and it's THE END OF YOUTUBE and all of that is just... really, really excessive. The system isn't even out yet. We don't know exactly what is required to take part in it or the consequences. So long as decent consequences exist, it's a pretty good way of improving the site's quality. Honestly, the only thing that makes me worry about it are the sheer number of people who refuse to consider it could be a positive thing that would intentionally abuse the system for the sake of doing that. On a related note...

AnimeFanFTWPretty much everyone makes the exact same points I made. And judging from the dislike bar the original Youtube video has, it seems the vast, vast majority share the same opinion.

This in particular bothered me a bit. While I hate being the person who brings in "GAIS GAIS THEY DID A LOGICAL FALALCY!1!" this point is just fallacious in nature and ultimately means nothing. Just because a majority supports something does not make it true. Many, many times over history has a majority supported something that ultimately turned out to be A Pretty Bad Thing.

I have to agree with Pepijin on this being a bandwagon sort of thing. You mention how many others were making the same points as you. Have you considered it might be the symptom of a widespread lack of nuance due to a sudden and controversial issue? The system isn't even out yet and people are assuming it's the worst thing ever because of things that MIGHT happen.


This is just another of many incredibly editorialized "The end is nigh, guys! This time we promise! Can we get a youtube version of this article? I think this is one of those things everyone needs to chill out about for a bit. Almost every other problem youtube had turned out to do fairly little massive damage. People can already flag videos and "mass flag" them if they want just by being a bit patient. People can already cause these problems and yet youtube isn't in shambles. Give it time and see how it goes. If the evil spooky scary SJWs, root of all evil in this world, infiltrate the heroes system and start recklessly hurting youtubers with it and there is no punishment, I could understand, but as of right now I don't see why it's worth complaining about, especially with no proposed solutions of any sort.

In all honesty, this is actually a good thing as it gets people involved in helping out the platform they love. There's thousands upon thousands upon countless number of videos that still don't have captioning. I'm certain they wouldn't say "hey, here's some power tools, go play with them," without carefully monitoring what's being flagged and what isn't.

Those who do report are most likely going to want to ban videos based on a "community criteria" of sorts which can be both a good thing and a bad. For example, nobody wants to see Game of Thrones spoilers so those who enjoy it will go out and flag videos that might be ripped from the series itself which is the purest form of a spoiler. Some other things might be the various people who want to flag inappropriate stuff like heavy swearing or things that are...unpleasant to even say.

As for the level 4 thing, here's where I think this is a better solution than "listen to everyone" because, from my experience and I don't mean this as a bad thing, but people can be stupid sometimes. Case in point, I was sent out to buy some things for our dryer. Didn't know the name of the thing so ended up asking a guy "I'm looking for a part that's made of metal and it's like tube you attach to the dryer" until I got the thing I was looking for. If people are committed enough to get to that level, staff can safely trust their judgement a bit more as they would most likely give some fair reasoning.

If you go through many of the comments on various videos, you'll see that many will rage "CHANGE THIS" or "OMG I DON'T LIKE YOU" without giving any specific reasoning. YouTube can listen to the mass or it can take a smaller sample size which would be far more manageable than sorting through hundreds of thousands of vague complaints.

Just my thoughts, overall I think this is a nice step in cleaning up the site a bit while also giving people an incentive to help out such as adding subtitle and captions. Negative videos might be subjective, though I'm going to give benefit of the doubt and think that those who will report bad content will have some idea of what is bad whereas trolls will actually give up as it would be far too much of a task to ruin one YouTuber, especially if they have 5000 videos and you'd have to report each and every single one.

AnimeFanFTW

PepijnWhat Pepjin said

I see lots of flaws with your reasoning. I can see some of the points you made, but I just can't agree with what you said. Let me explain why.

A couple of questions for you.

1. Why didn't you say this all the first time, so there would be no flaws to your stance?
2. How does this affect you so strongly that you feel it is so horrible?
3. Is it really worth it to keep on paying attention to something you believe is going to cause its own demise? Why can't you just let it, and move on?
4. Are you really trying to make change, or are you just upset over something and want people to agree with you?
5. Is this going to actually hurt any YouTuber?

I just want you to think about these things. I don't want you to be hurt, but please just think.