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Upvote or Downvote : What to do?

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avatar Cyprezz
Admin / Site Creator
Level 65 : High Grandmaster Cyborg
Posted 10/11/11 3:15:36 pm
10/11/11
Edit: Downvotes are long gone.  Upvotes are now diamonds.

To Upvote or Downvote?  Only Upvote?  It's a reoccurring suggestion on the site.  Most recent thread: Down with the downvote.  Despite a seemingly overwhelming support to get rid of them, I'm not convinced the site would be better off.

I'd like to make the distinction that downvotes are useful, trollvotes are not.  How many are trollvotes and how many do you just suspect?  Why is it unreasonable to receive a downvote?

The suggestion to force feedback during a downvote puzzles me. If a downvote hurts, I think getting a reason for each one will hurt even more. It would draw more attention to them. Feed a troll a reason box and I'd expect an increase, not a decrease in use.  Actually, the valid reasons are likely to hurt more than the trolls "opinion".  We'd go from FUUUUU to Okay... :(  If moderators reviewed reasons, we'd be making judgement calls on peoples opinions... nope, no thx.  We have to ignore enough grief in our PM box over removing clearly stolen, inappropriate and remix submissions. I also believe knowing who downvoted our work would give birth to a new breed, Revenge Votes!  I think requiring a reason is a complicated solution that in fact would cause more complex problems.

I've personally accepted that I'll inevitably get downvotes on anything I upload.  Cyprezz Uploads: "Transforming Nyan Mage Tower of Pork-tarts!"  Brace for DOWNVOTE!  I know 100% will not like what I do.  It's unrealistic. I think if a submission is good, an undeserved downvote will actually prompt others to upvote and offset it.  Maybe I'm the only one that does that.  In the short run a downvote may seem overpowered, which is why we get 1 upvote from ourself, 1 downvote and you're at 50%. Seems accurate actually, I like it and one person didn't, give it time. A quality submission WILL get more upvotes than down in the long run usually settling in the 75-99% range. I feel an upvote without the down isn't telling the truth and I can't seem to convince myself we'd be better off without them as attractive as knowing 100% will like my work, at least according to the site.  I would look at the # of upvotes on my submission and wonder how many downvotes would it have?  Would it still have 100%?! That would be quite the accomplishment. Or would it be 75-99% and is that really so bad?  Damn percentage eating trolls.

I could code things to auto-detect the ogres based on behavior patterns.  Have the system manipulate the vote? It could work... does for other systems. :D Would I only code rules to detect suspicious downvotes or take a look at the upvotes too?  Perhaps there are a few patterns that are too extreme to ignore. Maybe we don't auto-adjust the votes but alert mods to investigate? If we block a trollvote do they take their trolling into the comments? WHAT IS THE ANSWER!!?  I donno, stop yelling.

I think I'm playing devils advocate because I know if you're here and taking the time to comment, you care about your work and it's hard to understand how a downvote is going to be justified, ever.  After all, it's our personal creations, it's art.  Please consider the other side of submissions. There is lots of stolen content, 0 effort remixes and troll posts that downvotes not only make sense but help identify them as something that needs to be looked into.  It also prevents them from getting popular.  No downvotes? Then that obviously inappropriate project, texture pack, ripped skin is 100% liked and can only be upvoted. I think that would look worse than a trollvote issue.

What to do?

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Comments : 297

1 - 50 of 297

gwas10
Level 16
Journeyman Artist
May 22, 2013, 8:28 pm

I don't know what downvotes were like because I joined 4 months ago, but I think you should add a downvote section and have a reason required, and each reason and downvote gets reported to a moderator to see if its a troll or not, and moderators can delete troll votes. This is only if it is not too much for the moderators.
EDIT: the section for giving bad reviews is a coal.

Or you could add a five star rating button with each comment commented, so each user can choose the amount of stars they think the project needs while commenting. 
EXTRA: you could add something that adds up all the stars (ex: if 1 comment has 3 stars and another has 4 that would be seven stars) and divides them by the amount of comments for the mean/average. (that would be 7/2 so the mean/average would be 3.5) and there is a section that shows the mean/average.


Lol, no one reply meanly please, it's just an idea. :(

penge242
Level 12
Journeyman Narwhal
May 18, 2013, 11:36 am

keep downvotes!

MCTheBeast112233
Level 4
Apprentice Skinner
May 7, 2013, 9:02 am

Hmm


Diamonds or Obsidian?

RockinBlocker
Level 28
Expert Pixel Puncher
May 6, 2013, 5:56 pm

http://www.planetminecraft.com/skin/justin-bieber/

Well. This was before down vote was gone.

Zer0_As_A_Number
Level 1
New Explorer
May 3, 2013, 12:09 pm

Give diamonds,or give coal

Witch one?

Nbrandwine
Level 27
Expert Electrician
April 27, 2013, 7:27 pm

Downvotes.

starfighter101
Level 26
Expert Zombie
April 27, 2013, 5:46 am

negative diamonds XD

catrcool1122
Level 2
Apprentice Miner
February 20, 2013, 8:29 am

I wish downvotes still existed... I agree with your points 100%

plerp23
Level 9
Apprentice Hunter
April 19, 2013, 3:57 am

So do i.

Whoever01
Level 34
Artisan Creeper Hugger
February 4, 2013, 11:37 am

You have sooo much diamonds
Surprised you have no armour :D

_Sir_
Level 1
New Miner
May 3, 2013, 7:26 am

+1

Cheedles
Level 12
Journeyman Cake
January 19, 2013, 2:31 pm

So THAT's why some things have negative diamonds!

Whoever01
Level 34
Artisan Creeper Hugger
December 22, 2012, 3:26 pm

If that pic is you
Nice cloths :D

Rhinox12
Level 2
Apprentice Artist
December 30, 2012, 8:45 am

I think the picture is computer generated.

TWSSYesterday
Level 45
Master Baconator
January 8, 2013, 4:14 am

It's A Still From The Film 'Gladiator'

_DioM_
Level 10
Journeyman Scribe
December 14, 2012, 9:28 am

Downvotes sound to be quite a nice idea. There are many, many half-baked skins, projects, and blogs that call out for them. :P

brockblocking
Level 41
Master Architect
December 26, 2012, 1:31 am

It was too easy for trolls to down vote something over drama on a unrelated event (i.e. drama on a server, now they're hating on your unrelated projects just to get back at you)

They were never a good idea.

_DioM_
Level 10
Journeyman Scribe
December 26, 2012, 3:17 am

Ah.. Well..

A554551NAV3NGR
Level 24
Expert Narwhal
December 3, 2012, 3:30 pm

Yeah that was a good idea to remove downvotes

HeroGuy426
Level 25
Expert Ranger
December 1, 2012, 5:36 pm

Oooooooooooohhhhhhhh, so this must be why I've seen stuff that's a year old and has -12 diamonds. I always wondered how that happened.

Cyprezz
Admin / Site Creator
Level 65
High Grandmaster Cyborg
December 1, 2012, 6:13 pm

Yep, once upon a time negative votes were possible.  I didn't feel it was right to simply discard them after changing to only positive diamonds, so we do have some submissions with -diamonds today.  They are rare.  Honestly, I still feel like their should be upvotes and downvotes since realistically not everyone will like what you do no matter who you are or what you are doing in life.  But, this is PMC / the internet and you know what, if you don't like something... click on something else.  Ultimately, downvotes = food for trolls and I'd rather have everyone getting positive feedback or no feedback than getting negative.

caiden2000
Level 28
Expert Nerd
December 6, 2012, 8:59 am

Hi Cyprezz I had a question, what did you use to create this website?
Because I was looking at the HTML on this thing, and it's not hand made.

KnobleKnives
Chat Moderator
Level 50
Grandmaster Nerd
November 21, 2012, 5:17 pm

I believe that it would be a bad idea. Trollers could easily just spam downvote submissions all over the site.

RiotShielder
Level 15
Journeyman Pony
November 25, 2012, 11:47 am

Good idea: Give people a certain amount of downvotes depending on how many submissions/diamonds/other factors they have
d*2/s=Downvotes
If I have 3 submissions with 10 diamonds in all I would have...
10*2/3=6 Downvotes

This would require people to first have quality content before being able to downvote, which will help balance it out. Also it would be cool, say after 10 downvotes on a single submission that submission would be invisible to all but mods, so they can review it manually (Sort of like reporting, but easier to do)

Migglesticks
Level 22
Expert Toast
October 15, 2012, 4:42 am

You people still giving your opinion on this article are silly. Considering it's over a year old, and the issue has long since been resolved. We got the diamond system instead of upvotes/downvotes.

Genesect
Level 15
Journeyman Pokemon
March 3, 2013, 3:48 pm

Yeah I agree :P

gogocp
Level 14
Journeyman Cake
October 7, 2012, 9:56 am

Maybe do downvotes, but your IP is only allowed 1 per 10 minutes or something, and upvotes 5 per 10 minutes, so trolls/spammers don't keep voting. Maybe you could do stars. So if you liked it but there was something which could improve, you could do 4 stars. :P
^ You don't have to do it.

Cashkid32
Level 42
Master Blockhead
October 19, 2012, 5:02 am

This is an old thread, and it has been resolved. Just so you know, the old system only allowed people to downvote and upvote a post once. I'm not sure what you were thinking.-_-

smanrt
Level 44
Master Wizard
September 24, 2012, 12:51 pm

Downvote should stay down the drain xD im so funny lol...not (i'm not funny)

_DioM_
Level 10
Journeyman Scribe
December 14, 2012, 9:29 am

If comments could be downvoted..

smanrt
Level 44
Master Wizard
December 14, 2012, 9:55 am

xD

terreen
Level 22
Expert Pixel Painter
October 1, 2012, 2:42 am

xD

OliverFrenchie
Site Moderator
Level 58
Grandmaster Terraformer
September 21, 2012, 1:13 pm

Never implement downvotes. They are the source of depression and discontinuity of content on YouTube. They hurt a lot too.


PMC is such a positive community which is what I love!

Creative-Node
Level 63
High Grandmaster Architect
December 1, 2012, 6:53 am

we can still voice how much we hate you.




I hate you

MarzipanCraft
Level 9
Apprentice Taco
September 18, 2012, 6:54 am

I say you make the upvote button downvote and the downvote button upvote just for a few days, and also remove all posts related to the matter as to not reveal the secret. The confusion and raging would be GLORIOUS!

Whoever01
Level 34
Artisan Creeper Hugger
September 7, 2012, 7:05 pm

Same cyprezz

alaint778
Level 6
Apprentice Dragonborn
August 13, 2012, 2:58 pm

OWNER please view your inbox i sent you a urgent message.

flipoffaclif
Level 1
New Alien
August 3, 2012, 5:32 pm

please do something about  Daevon he keeps calling me faggot gay ...... and harassing me and the block userer feature does not seam to work so can you do some thing about it he harasses me daily calling me gay or faggot or a bitch and i do not appreciate it please do something 
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h446/flipoffaclif/Capture1.png
go here and stop him please http://www.planetminecraft.com/project/over-50-projects-star-trek-fleet-that-contains-star-trek-star-wars-halo-ships-statues-and-giant-guns/
i just want to use this site without loging on and wondering how many hut-full comments he has left today please do something about it and you can only be told to burn jew so manny time before you cant take it any more

DinoWolf
Level 26
Expert Taco
October 20, 2012, 5:09 pm

Report him to a mod/staff member

majed9
Level 41
Master Pixel Painter
August 17, 2012, 2:22 pm

i ll see and talk to him.

SquishyZaUltra
Level 38
Artisan Turtle
August 2, 2012, 6:43 am

Downvotes....that would be a more free opinion of a submission.....BUT!--There is a catch....

1. It could EASILY offend someone's culture.
2. If a lot of people downvote, It'll make people feel worthless, and from feeling worthless, they leave.
3. People could do it for fun to make others feel bad.
4. It could easily be used as a "gang-up". (E.x. A group of trolls go around to a list of submissions they would like to troll, and they all downvote them and say that some other people even agree. Pretty much saying that they weren't the ones who downvoted them.)

That is my thought about it. Yes, it would make everything more free in opinion, but it DOES have some downsides. I really don't know how it was, but I'm just making a statement.

-Squishy <3

alexbeast12
Level 16
Journeyman Scribe
August 25, 2012, 6:51 am

Maybe if you downvote, you have to give a reason, and if the reason isn't legit, the downvote is nullified.

IBloodstormI
Level 43
Master Dwarf
August 3, 2012, 3:35 pm

The problem was that down votes weren't really opinions. It was a number that, to the creator, offered no insight into the reasoning for the down vote. It was just a number there, making you feel like your efforts were for nothing.

Now they at least have to comment on it to tell you what they find unfavorable about it, or they just have to move on.

flipoffaclif
Level 1
New Alien
August 3, 2012, 3:48 pm

well now people just say -1 diamond in the comments

IBloodstormI
Level 43
Master Dwarf
August 3, 2012, 4:07 pm

But more often, they just do nothing. Which is better then down voting IMO.

flipoffaclif
Level 1
New Alien
August 2, 2012, 1:32 pm

well with the down vote system people felt like they had more input on the work of others i have a project with 
201,942 views and only 46 diamonds


in my experience only 0.002% of people leave diamonds

SquishyZaUltra
Level 38
Artisan Turtle
August 2, 2012, 1:43 pm

Lol, same here. Only about 2/100 people leave a diamond. And YET they download them!

-Squishy <3

nanodog12
Level 49
Master Engineer
August 19, 2012, 4:16 am

its kinda fun, for me its 1 diamond per 5 viewer, but i have almost no views

pipibug
Level 9
Apprentice Taco
August 4, 2012, 11:18 am

exactley! they dont even comment (hardly)

SquishyZaUltra
Level 38
Artisan Turtle
August 4, 2012, 4:04 pm

Agreed.

-Squishy <3

flipoffaclif
Level 1
New Alien
August 2, 2012, 1:44 pm

well that number is unreasonable 201942 view my project and only 46 people diamond it

SquishyZaUltra
Level 38
Artisan Turtle
August 2, 2012, 1:49 pm

But isn't that number SO much better than 7 diamonds? I mean, come on! I get practically nothing on my skins. -_- But of course, I get TONS of downloads. -_- *Sigh* I wish I could change my views into diamonds.

-Squishy <3

ObsidianMinerMan
Level 12
Journeyman Goblin
November 11, 2012, 1:13 pm

IKR i have some downers too i have 1 diamod per 12 veiwers and almost 1 download

D: :( :(

flipoffaclif
Level 1
New Alien
August 2, 2012, 3:31 pm

what about having 
367,843 Total XP Earned and 91 subscribers

SquishyZaUltra
Level 38
Artisan Turtle
August 2, 2012, 4:01 pm

How about 15,534 Total XP Earned and 116 subscribers? XP

-Squishy <3

flipoffaclif
Level 1
New Alien
August 2, 2012, 4:03 pm

when i had the much xp i properly only had 1

SquishyZaUltra
Level 38
Artisan Turtle
August 2, 2012, 4:04 pm

Lol. xD

-Squishy <3

flipoffaclif
Level 1
New Alien
August 2, 2012, 4:06 pm

i have 23 times more xp then you do and you still have more subscribers

SquishyZaUltra
Level 38
Artisan Turtle
August 2, 2012, 7:41 pm

Lol. Smiley gonna Smile. :)

-Squishy <3

flipoffaclif
Level 1
New Alien
August 2, 2012, 7:44 pm

ok now that is funny

SquishyZaUltra
Level 38
Artisan Turtle
August 3, 2012, 8:51 am

;3

-Squishy <3

flipoffaclif
Level 1
New Alien
August 3, 2012, 9:06 am

or a project that has 202014 views and the youtube video only has 20k views

SquishyZaUltra
Level 38
Artisan Turtle
August 3, 2012, 9:09 am

Yeah, that, too.

-Squishy <3

peytonisgreat
Level 49
Master Artist
July 19, 2012, 5:47 pm

I do not think downvotes should be brought back, people abuse the system with it. People do this on youtube too, they just go around and dislike things for no reason.

ReaCraft
Level 14
Journeyman Artist
February 2, 2013, 11:12 am

I think it should. People should have the right to say what they want, whether it is a contest judge or a troll. But that is just me

flipoffaclif
Level 1
New Alien
July 5, 2012, 9:16 am

from what i have seen only 1 out of every 150 actually give a diamond people might give more input to creators if you brought back the down vote system 


here

IBloodstormI
Level 43
Master Dwarf
August 3, 2012, 3:31 pm

The problem was that people were down voting without any insight for the creator to get better. Now they have to leave a comment telling them why they don't like it, or how it could be better, or they just have to move on.

Cpt. Corn
Level 82
Elite Pony
July 20, 2012, 7:39 am

I personally do not prefer the downvote system, as it does not increase the amount of input towards creators, at least within my experience of having known the system. I often orient myself with the inquiry of others, positive and negative, so that I may be able to improve upon my work; a downvote does not give such constructive criticism, rather it makes the user feel discouraged more than anything.

That's my two bits. ;P

Typhlosionboy
Level 37
Artisan Turtle
July 3, 2012, 12:59 pm

I think it's better like this since a lot of trolls are going to make people's work look bad

deadman
Level 26
Expert Electrician
July 3, 2012, 1:35 am

Bring downvotes back!!

1 - 50 of 297