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Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 9:55 pm
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

Good morning guys.

Snowey; you've done an incredible job moderating- i really appreciate just how long we've had to voice our oppinions on a topic which alot of us clearly find important !

My oppinion is that biological evolution is happening; which i consider to be; accumulation of small positive mutations... in this view the only difference between macro and micro evolution is the amount of time alotted.

It's also an oppinion of mine that religions have become used to fighting other religions ( perhaps over patronship ) and that it's very natural for religious people to see anything which does not line up with there own religion as being itself a religion to be rejected, obviously science is in no way dogmatic yet i've heard the relent 'science is just another religion' dozens and dozens of times.

Thanks again guys; i would love to hear some other perspectives !
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 12:58 pm
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

SemaphorismI got this information from Richard Dawkins

Richard is a genius beyond geniuses, but he is not a physicist ! i would take comments like that with a walloping grain of salt ( at-least when they're coming out of Richard )!
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 12:32 pm
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

Knight
Schroedingers Cat can be applied to the universe and how it came into existence.Both beliefs cannot be proved, but neither can be DISPROVED. Neither of you are wrong. Neither of you are right.


The entire universe cannot be in super-position. the observer effect / wave collapse infers a hierarchy of states.

The cat can be both alive and dead because it has two sibling states in the hierarchy - from the actual cats perspective it is it's own parent node and so can only be in one state - it's like that with the universe... one or the other. ( if we made a smaller universe and did-not look inside THEN it would be in super-position but only from our perspective -i.e outside ) okay now I'm really going to bed!
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 12:25 pm
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

Well good night all, thanks for an interesting read!

Poshtoffee and arlodee; you guys are almost too nice i wish you the best of luck with who ever shows up here next ! Celestia Empire your work is great and IrishChaos your way mature for your age!

DBC, Humans and chimpanzees do share a common ancestor which lived about 5 million years ago - I'm afraid all of biology speaks rather firmly to the camp of evolution.

We share almost all our DNA. we look like a baby chimp. we are African apes - and we are much closer to the Australopithecus than even a chimp is to a gorilla.

There really is no debate amongst biologists - evolution is a fact, as secure in science as the fact that the earth is smaller than the sun.
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 12:09 pm
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

I've always figured the honest truth that the universe is an endless cold, dead soup of particles not placed here for us - it's just too hard for some people.

I find majesty in the fact that chance alone holds us feet away from a never ending nothingness - we alone keep our selves alive and we do it because we absolutely must.

I'd like to thank the mods for letting the discussion continue and for not just pee-emtively locking a thread that is potentially abusable : )
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 11:38 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

This thread is obviously on the universe not whether religion is moral, but since the question has been put; I'm pretty sure at one point god drowned every family on earth except Noah's ... next thing he cursed Noah and his offspring with illiteracy and confusion.
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 11:31 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

arlodeeI wouldn't mind being a puppet. No suffering, poverty, third world problems, violence, etc.


Yeah sounds fine, i don't particularly feel like i have a choice to not do what i was gonna do anyway !
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 11:24 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

arlodee
RevolutionalRedStone
Lucifer likes terrorizing people.
He never would've enjoyed terrorising people if this creationist being didn't decide to create him in the first place, though.

Thats fair.
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 11:22 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

blasfemic !.. blasphemous?
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 11:19 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

arlodeeHe has all the power though. Nothing is difficult for him. How is stopping Lucifer from terrorizing the entire world population cruel? You have some interesting arguments, though.

Lucifer likes terrorizing people.
You see it's all about honey.
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 11:15 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

PoshtoffeeAnd the community is comforted by being created by him. Not really getting the "All-loving vibe" here. Seems like he was planning "BE IGNORANT AND BE PERFECT"

Mysterious ways. Don't try to reason. beings like us are too grounded to understand divine logic.
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 11:09 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

arlodeeBut 'God' could've easily seen what Lucifers intentions were. All he had to do was wipe him from existence. This would've prevented a ton of suffering.
Well, your last statement implies that a God exists.


God can of-coarse see everyone's intentions but that doesn't mean it's easy ! and he can't exactly wipe angels out from existent ( even fallen ones ) - angels are more like honey.

God doesn't actually want humans to suffer, but be cannot be cruel to the devil by stopping him - after all he never even ate any of gods fruit.
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 10:59 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

PoshtoffeeSure, so two people mess-up and the rest of humanity; which doesn't exist yet, has to pay for it. Sure that's sound like a great deal.

God originally made humans as perfect, but then humans failed god by acquiring there own knowledge - so god took their power away and left them in shame.
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 10:55 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

arlodeeInteresting. But why doesn't this creationist being prevent 'Lucifer' from completely terrorizing the world? He has absolute power over everything.
If a 'God' has always existed, then why can't matter? I personally believe that the creation theory isn't very logical.

He's all powerful over you. but Lucifer was there from the start.
Matter decays like a meat sandwich, god is like a pot of honey.
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 10:51 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

HerobrinebusterMatter doesn't just make itself then make physics.

If matter exists because it made itself, couldn't it have just existed and not made itself ?
Also physics is just the word for what happens when you have matter...

Trying to think like this is hard - it must be super tempting to posit that someone just 'did it'.
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 10:42 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

PoshtoffeeDevil kills 10 people in the Bible. Gods wipes out millions.

Well you're ignoring all the times in between - obviously in a book about god it's going to focus on his dealings. I'm sure the devil has outdone god since he released his last book
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 10:36 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

seriouswarriorJust because you cannot prove the existence of something doesn't mean it does not exist. The big bang theory is still unprovable in itself.

If something exists you are able to prove it.

The big-bang is not unproven - it is simply miss-understood... there was a big bang, it was that explosion/bang which launched each particle of matter in the universe away from each other particle. it was the biggest bang that will ever happen and that's ALL it is defined as.

It may have happened in any number of ways - science does not try to specify - the big bang theory simply states there was a bang and no one will ever disprove that.

The actual mechanism of operation is of-coarse open for debate but the whole idea of the theory of the 'big-bang' was to ignore the irrelevant mechanism and focus on what we all know is definitely true..
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 10:29 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

Poshtoffeehow can be comforted by the fact you were created by a God that also created torture, starvation, injustice, corruption and suffering? The same "being" that allows children to starve while capitalists sit on their pile of greed and money built by someone else's hard work and labour.


Wooow there, the devil created those things ! obviously god created the devil but that's different !
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 10:23 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

It amazes me to think that a teeny tiny mammal can fight it's way to dominance on the surface of a planet - look up - and build a model of the entire universe within it's mind...

It feels to me like ascribing the existence of our sophisticated bodies and minds to anything less than billions-of-years of research and tournament is a terrible cop-out.
Discussions/General How was the universe created out of nothing?
1
09/04/2014 10:08 am
Level 53 : Grandmaster Pirate
RevolutionalRedStone

The_Big_DishThis means nothing to me ...


Maybe try think of it as debt, when a particle spawns into existence with energy (which you can think of as a person appearing with new money ) it incurs a debt with the system which must be repaid... alot of money can be created but never more than the corresponding debt.

Money is existence and debt is instability - the universe and all things in it are essentially on borrowed time...

So the question 'how did the universe come from nothing?' becomes 'who lent us something and how long can we keep it?'

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