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    1
    12/28/2011 10:50 am
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    You can't even afford the first month and ask for donations?

    "Soon to be popular"? What edge do you have over the other ~30,000 servers out there?
    1
    10/30/2011 2:26 pm
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    How about you just pay for the game like good, moral people do?
    1
    07/27/2011 4:25 am
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    BleydIt's pretty obvious I wasn't comparing time travel to religion, just showing that your argument is illogical by using on a different subject.


    That didn't show the argument was illogical, that just showed you picking another subject. If anything, it reinforces my statement.

    I agree, radical groups like these give the whole of religion a bad name. They look at a few verses and ignore the rest, like the ones about being loving and understanding toward people rather than persecuting them.


    Yes, the first book is doom and gloom and an angry God. Pissed off at its own creation. Oops. There goes Omniscience (yet again). It should have known Adam was going to eat the apple and damn all of mankind. By that logic alone, it has no right to be angry at anyone but itself for failing to produce the perfection it claimed it had.

    To really understand these references, you have to know how things worked in those times. When most people hear the word slavery, images of lowly laborers being beaten and neglected come to mind, but the indentured servitude of Jewish law made this more akin to the relationship between a paid worker and an employee. Jesus even urged that both parties were to maintain mutual respect for one another.


    And that's how the bible shows slavery. Indentured servitude is slavery in PC terms. Slavery is slavery. Mutual respect urged or not. This argument does nothing for you and is akin to simplistic christian apologetics.

    The Bible is not 'anti-woman' in a chauvinistic sense. Most cultures throughout history - including the church - have not allowed women to hold positions of authority simply because it was not commonplace for them to be educated in such matter. Only in the past few centuries have women risen through the ranks in monumental numbers and become more empowered in every aspect of society.


    The fact that women had to "rise through the ranks" speaks for itself. Chauvinistic indeed. Religion remains highly chauvinistic to this day.

    You answer this question yourself by quoting three different books of the Bible. Each anecdote was written by a different man, so what they heard and which parts they found significant enough to write would have varied.


    Point? They each claim to the truth. Which one do YOU follow?

    Show me the verses you are talking about then. Where is benevolence defined, and when is God being malevolent?


    Go ask your pastor if God is perfectly good. Any answer other than "Yes" is worthy of a grand smiting. The bible proclaims God "perfect in all ways", upon which we are a (highly failed) model. Something so perfect failed in such a magnificent manner.

    Where is God being malevolent?

    Oh, boy. Where should I start?

    Have you read any of Leviticus? Deuteronomy? I'm guessing not since you can't seem to find any place where God is malevolent.

    Here are some selections:

    EX 9:22-25 A plague of hail from the Lord strikes down everything in the fields of Egypt both man and beast except in Goshen where the Israelites reside.

    EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt.

    NU 21:3 The Israelites utterly destroy the Canaanites.

    NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.

    1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

    That's pretty damned malevolent. That's just a few selections.

    How does knowing the future stop one from changing the future? With complete control over both time and reality, an omnipotent being would be able to alter the course of events, thus creating a new future. It's just like writing a book - you know how you want it to end, but you can decide to make the story turn out different if you so choose.


    Obviously, the reasons for Omnipotence and Omniscience being incompatible can't be resolved to your satisfaction (and within my limited reasoning skills at this point).

    That's because from a religious standpoint, God is not bad. He does allow unfortunate things to happen, yes, but that's a sign of neither malice of apathy. This appears to be yet another malevolence argument, as if to say that because God would not randomly prevent a person from dying, he must hate humanity.


    You watch without acting/reacting: Apathy
    You are the hand that guides the universe: Malice

    That can only be a sign of malice or apathy. Or, more likely, non-existence. Everything that happens, happens by his will. All death and all new life is by his direct hand. He allows, and designs, the most graceful and heroic of deaths.. along with the (more common) cruel, painful and extended deaths.

    As I said earlier in this thread:

    He did many EPIC miracles (parting the red sea, rising from the dead, turning water to wine, etc).

    Now, the best this being can manage is his face on a piece of burnt toast. Now owned by an online casino. I guess someone got an epic paycheck.

    ---

    Of all people who should believe in God, it would be scientists. Would they not be the ones who find the evidence to support this being?

    Fully 98% of the scientific community (this isn't a made up statistic, but I'm going to bed and can't be arsed to find the cite) is against the notion that God exists.

    Every day, new scientific discoveries further marginalize this being. This being has been relegated to being the "God of the Gaps".

    Don't know something yet? God did it.

    The ultimate cop-out.
    1
    07/27/2011 3:30 am
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    Very easy to fake that stuff live. Right lighting and camera angles.. blam! "A ghost!".

    An undocumented experience with a "spirit" can easily be explained away with:

    Hallucinations
    Dreams
    Daydreams

    The only way to document a spirit encounter is to have a scientist present to present a hypothesis and find the proof <or lack there-of>. Kinda strange how there haven't been any peer-reviewed, documented spiritual encounters.

    I saw Elvis last week. He's alive and kicking.
    1
    07/27/2011 3:26 am
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    You comment could have been diluted down to:

    "I am agnostic."
    1
    07/27/2011 3:16 am
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    It is not my duty to prove God doesn't exist. You make the claim he does exist. it is your responsibility to prove it. I have no duty nor obligation to prove non-existance!

    Demons? See above. You must show proof.
    1
    07/27/2011 2:54 am
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    Bleyd@gwinans Different interpretations of a religion are all based on human reasoning and prone to error and variation because of how every individual interprets it. These don't really effect core belief systems, however. For example, Christians from different denominations will argue amongst themselves about whether baptism means full water immersion or sprinkling, but they will always agree on what the act itself represents. Based on your logic, if one person thinks time travel is possible, and another does not, is that proof time does not exist?


    Apples and oranges. Time travel is a scientific endeavor, not a belief system. Nice try.

    The problem with different interpretations of the same book come down to groups like WBC and many other anti-gay anti-pretty-much-anything literal interpretations of the bible.

    These passages aren't up for much interpretation.

    Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)

    Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (NIV)


    The bible itself is pro-slavery and anti-women. That point has never been proven wrong. Christian apologetics have attempted to bury those facts, but it's hard to do when it's written as law/canon.

    So, why isn't everyone out killing gays and keeping slaves and ensuring women are treated as property?

    Every 'contradiction' I've ever seen has long been proven wrong. Many people still use them without even understanding the context or meaning of the passages. For example, the one where pi is supposedly calculated to be an even 3 was shown to be a misreading because of the dimensions involved (taken from the diameter of the inside of the vessel in question, rather than the outside). As you say, go look some of these things up.


    MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

    LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

    JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."


    That's just one of a few dozen contradictions. What were his last words?

    Oh, right. The bible wasn't started until some 30-40 years (or more!) after this individuals' death. There isn't even much evidence to support such a person even existed.

    The lack of benevolence argument is, to be honest, just plain pathetic. It can all be boiled down to "good things happen to bad people, so there must not be a God." Our existence not being some overjoyous Disney movie with sunshine and roses doesn't prove or disprove anything. Life happens. Even from a religious point of view, man doesn't deserve anything good. He is a fallen and corrupt creature that waits only for death, and God's true benevolence comes in the form of forgiveness and a chance at redemption, not in giving out cookies during our short stint on this planet.


    Is it? Benevolence has a very specific meaning in according with the bible. Perfectly Good. To allow evil while being perfectly good completely erases the ability to be benevolent.

    The God of the bible <both new and old testaments!> very rarely shows signs of being good, kind, altruistic or humane.

    The omnipotence paradox itself is nonsensical because it demands the creation of something that can't exist. A "nontask" like this blatantly defies logic, rendering itself meaningless. It's like asking an artist to draw a square circle.


    That doesn't address the problem of Omniscience vs. Omnipotence. Neither can work together. The same conclusion is still drawn. The God of the bible is a paradoxical impossiblity.

    You cannot change the future and know the future. Omniscience is out.
    You cannot know the future and change the future. Omnipotence is out.

    As for reason behind bad/good things happening, that too is left up to individual interpretation. Not every religious person blesses God when good things happen, or blames Him for the bad things. Finding out why we are here is the purpose of this thread, is really up to each person to decide. The meaning of life is something all people, religious or otherwise, have struggled to answer.


    The vast majority, however, do thank "God" for everything good in their life. "He" is described in the bible as the hand that guides everything. This being is either completely involved or completely uninvolved.

    Your argument that "bad things happen to good people" is the most common religious "out" that's used to describe any situation. I could describe the death of 300 people at the hands of an uncontrollable blaze.

    The answer?

    God works in mysterious ways - OR - bad things happen to good people.

    You'll never hear "Because God is bad". All excuses.

    One is complete involvement (cause of death) or complete non-involvement (existence of being doesn't matter).
    1
    07/27/2011 2:00 am
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    Wrote it myself. I don't find copying things terribly useful when trying to drive home a point.
    1
    07/27/2011 1:59 am
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    The onus is on you, the claimant, to prove God exists.

    This is how science works.

    1.) You have a Hypothesis/Positive assertion (God exists)
    2.) You must prove that hypothesis.

    You owe science proof. It is not possible to prove a negative.

    Hundreds upon thousands have tried. Every single one has failed.

    Why?

    Because not a shred of proof that this being exists ... exists.

    2000 Years ago, this supposed being was doing epic miracles left and right (Hello? Parting the red sea?). These things were done during a time when sufficient technological/scientific know-how didn't exist to properly document these events.

    Fast forward 2000 years and this beings' best miracle is a caricature of his supposed likeness on a piece of toast.
    1
    07/27/2011 1:18 am
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    This is called "begging the question" or, more simply, circular logic.

    You say the bible is proof of god because the bible says it is, so god exists because the bible says he exists because god wrote the bible that says he exists.

    SEE: http://www.wayofthemind.org/wp-content/ ... ebible.jpg

    The is the "proof" of someone who has zero comprehension of verifiable facts.

    Your "God":

    Commands ritual animal sacrifice
    Killing children who talk back to parents
    Killing of anyone who doesn't believe in him.

    What about the thousands of other religions? Hell, what about the (estimated) 4000 different versions of christianity?

    Why do no two christians agree on all the concepts of the bible?

    That's proof of:
    Inaccuracy
    Non-divine inspiration

    That doesn't even begin to touch the surface of the contradictions that exists in the old testament or the new testament (within their own passages, no compared to one another!). Go look it up, not that hard to find objective reviews of the bible.

    The bible claims God is:
    Omnipotent
    Omniscient
    Benevolent

    Two of the above are incompatible. The last one is blatantly and patently false.

    One cannot be all-power and all-knowing.

    If you know the future, then you cannot change the future. This takes away Omnipotence. Omnipotence itself is a built-in contradiction. Can God make a rock so heavy he cannot lift it? Either side of this answer removes omnipotence again.

    What about benevolence?
    A child in Africa dies of dehydration/starvation. This is, hands down, the cruelest and most painful way to expire. So much for benevolence.

    This is my favorite one:

    Something good happens? God is great!
    Something terrible happens? God works in mysterious ways! Their suffering had a purpose!

    I dare you to tell me what that purpose is - seeing as a purpose implies a learning opportunity.

    ------

    Learn to live your life.
    Love your friends.
    Love your family.
    Be good for the mere sake of being good. Being good only for an imaginary eternal reward would, I imagine, would be on the top of your God's list of Bad Things.
    1
    07/27/2011 12:58 am
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    [quote="TheAsterite"][b]I MEAN Whats our purpose in life?[b] Or our PURPOELSE, Purpose. Gods amusement? An accident by the big bang? Or whatever? I just feel soo... So small and lost...

    *goes and cries to sleep in a dark corner thinking such sad thoughts*
    *WAIL* *CRY*[/quote]


    Why do you need a purpose?

    The only "purpose" one could propose is: Procreation.

    That is the only biological purpose of a person.

    Live your life, have fun, be good.

    Problem? Then go back to feeling small and lost. In the scope of things, you are in fact, quite small. Lost? That's your problem. Deal with it.
    1
    07/26/2011 10:13 pm
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    piemanjake97*snip* we are running 500gbram. */snip*


    How'd you manage that? Did you actually mean 512MB of RAM?
    1
    07/25/2011 8:16 pm
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    Hamachi = fail
    1
    02/12/2011 6:31 pm
    Level 33 : Artisan Architect
    Ham_Shambler
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    Thanks for making it!

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