1
Thinking of getting gaming computer
Redstonedbacca
Woodilicious
Im thinking of getting a new gaming/work computer to use for minecraft and mc vids on youtube is this a good enough computer:
Operating system - Windows 8 64
Processor - 3rd generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3820 processor[3.6GHz,Shared 10 MB Cache]
Memory - 12GB DDR3-1600MHz [2 DIMM ]
Hard drive - 2TB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
Graphics card - 2GB Nvidia GeForce GTX 645[DX11,DVI,DP,HDMI,DVI to VGA Dongle]
Optical drive - Blu-ray player & SuperMulti DVD burner
it also has liquid cooling and 600 watt power supply please help
Operating system - Windows 8 64
Processor - 3rd generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3820 processor[3.6GHz,Shared 10 MB Cache]
Memory - 12GB DDR3-1600MHz [2 DIMM ]
Hard drive - 2TB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
Graphics card - 2GB Nvidia GeForce GTX 645[DX11,DVI,DP,HDMI,DVI to VGA Dongle]
Optical drive - Blu-ray player & SuperMulti DVD burner
it also has liquid cooling and 600 watt power supply please help
Create an account or sign in to comment.
81
1
RedstonedbaccaWoody239Redstonedbaccahere is a computer would it be good enoughClick to reveal
By no means is it a gaming computer.
But if you're just planning on playing Minecraft, then it should be fine.
However, if you're planning on recording, or self-running a server, then it doesn't have enough RAM.
can dell computers be upgraded/
I've never had a Dell. But from what I've heard from my friends, you should be able to.
But be careful. Opening up some computers will void the warranty. So if it breaks, you won't be able to replace it.
1
Woody239Redstonedbaccahere is a computer would it be good enoughClick to reveal
By no means is it a gaming computer.
But if you're just planning on playing Minecraft, then it should be fine.
However, if you're planning on recording, or self-running a server, then it doesn't have enough RAM.
can dell computers be upgraded/
1
here is a computer would it be good enough
Click to reveal
1
By no means is it a gaming computer.
But if you're just planning on playing Minecraft, then it should be fine.
However, if you're planning on recording, or self-running a server, then it doesn't have enough RAM.
Edit:
Unless you're planning on moving around a lot, I would NOT recommend getting a gaming laptop. They're more expensive than desktops, they can't be (easily) upgraded, and they're only built to last 2-4 years. Desktops are cheaper, easy to upgrade, and (depending on the makers) built to last long.
Also, laptops can be good, but they usually don't have enough RAM to play high-quality games. Also, the charger will only last a few months. And if you've got a gaming laptop, then it'll probably have a specific charger made by the manufacturers, and patented so that there can't be other companies making the same kind. So the chargers will probably be expensive. And in some cases, the company might not even make separate chargers. So you might just be buying a very fancy paperweight.
But if you're just planning on playing Minecraft, then it should be fine.
However, if you're planning on recording, or self-running a server, then it doesn't have enough RAM.
Edit:
Unless you're planning on moving around a lot, I would NOT recommend getting a gaming laptop. They're more expensive than desktops, they can't be (easily) upgraded, and they're only built to last 2-4 years. Desktops are cheaper, easy to upgrade, and (depending on the makers) built to last long.
Also, laptops can be good, but they usually don't have enough RAM to play high-quality games. Also, the charger will only last a few months. And if you've got a gaming laptop, then it'll probably have a specific charger made by the manufacturers, and patented so that there can't be other companies making the same kind. So the chargers will probably be expensive. And in some cases, the company might not even make separate chargers. So you might just be buying a very fancy paperweight.
1
I don't recommend liquid cooling if you're going to be moving it a lot.
1
hey i neeed dome helps doods
1
or this one both are the same price of 1000
Operating System Windows 8
Processor Model i7-4770
Standard Memory 12 GB
Total Hard Drive Capacity 2 TB
Graphics Controller Model GeForce GT 640
Operating System Windows 8
Processor Model i7-4770
Standard Memory 12 GB
Total Hard Drive Capacity 2 TB
Graphics Controller Model GeForce GT 640
1
i found a cheaper desktop tell me if this would fit my needs
Operating System Windows 8
Processor Model i7-4770
Standard Memory 12 GB
Total Hard Drive Capacity 1 TB
Graphics Controller Model Radeon HD 8760
Operating System Windows 8
Processor Model i7-4770
Standard Memory 12 GB
Total Hard Drive Capacity 1 TB
Graphics Controller Model Radeon HD 8760
1
DONT GET WINDOWS 8! ITS NOT FOR GAMING!
1
It's better for gaming. Although it is very small, it has directX 11.1 support, and is generally slightly optimised better. Also I believe in 8.1 you can get back the start button from windows 7. Another advantage is that it automatically updates drivers, which is incredibly useful.
1
im thinking of getting a laptop instead of a desktop what do u reccommend?
1
Desktops generally perform better than laptops, plus getting a laptop means there is no upgradability in the future if you need to do so. I would get a desktop unless you're going to be gaming in different places, then you'll want the portability.
1
ok so the of the computers i just posted which one would be better
1
All my games run fine on Windows 8, though I'll admit I miss my start button.
1
RedstonedbaccaIt appears to be made by a fairly well known brand. It should last around 4 years before it breaks, but I can't guarantee anything. It will be very solid for games like Skyrim, Minecraft, Cube World, etc. Just remember that you won't be able to play battlefield 4 or anything like that on ultra or high.[/quote]
what if it does break could i fix it without buying a new one[/quote]
and now my mom says i cant get it for christmas im still gonna put it on my list but it is a low chance of getting it
1
[/quote]It appears to be made by a fairly well known brand. It should last around 4 years before it breaks, but I can't guarantee anything. It will be very solid for games like Skyrim, Minecraft, Cube World, etc. Just remember that you won't be able to play battlefield 4 or anything like that on ultra or high.[/quote]
what if it does break could i fix it without buying a new one
what if it does break could i fix it without buying a new one
1
Redstonedbacca
That's very good. You will be able to play most games on high. The seconds hard drive is very good for recording onto! I'd definitely go for it if you just want to play most games decent spec.[/quote]
well would it be good for recording,commentaries, minecraft on high settings (no lag), and just every day computering[/quote]
Yes, definitely. People sometimes don't understand that you can't just change the CPU on a pre-built PC. If I were you, I'd go ahead with it if you are only going to be recording on minecraft with high settings, and general computing.[/quote]
but will it be good for other games on high like cube world or bf4[/quote]
No, you won't be able to play battlefield 4 on high settings. The graphics card is just too weak. You will probably be able to play ultra with 35 FPS, high on 45 FPS and medium on a solid 60.
As for cube world, you should have no problem with that.
1
[/quote]
That's very good. You will be able to play most games on high. The seconds hard drive is very good for recording onto! I'd definitely go for it if you just want to play most games decent spec.[/quote]
well would it be good for recording,commentaries, minecraft on high settings (no lag), and just every day computering[/quote]
Yes, definitely. People sometimes don't understand that you can't just change the CPU on a pre-built PC. If I were you, I'd go ahead with it if you are only going to be recording on minecraft with high settings, and general computing.[/quote]
but will it be good for other games on high like cube world or bf4
That's very good. You will be able to play most games on high. The seconds hard drive is very good for recording onto! I'd definitely go for it if you just want to play most games decent spec.[/quote]
well would it be good for recording,commentaries, minecraft on high settings (no lag), and just every day computering[/quote]
Yes, definitely. People sometimes don't understand that you can't just change the CPU on a pre-built PC. If I were you, I'd go ahead with it if you are only going to be recording on minecraft with high settings, and general computing.[/quote]
but will it be good for other games on high like cube world or bf4
1
First of all i'd recommend building your own pc. Not just because it's cheaper, its also a lot more fun and an experience which'll make you much more satisfied with your build and you'll also learn a lot.
I'd recommend a PC which has an i5 processor and atleast a nVidia 670 or an AMD HD7950 GPU and 8GB's of ram.
I'd recommend a PC which has an i5 processor and atleast a nVidia 670 or an AMD HD7950 GPU and 8GB's of ram.
1
well im just a 11 y/o boy i dont really wanna build my own because im afraid i wont build it correctly
1
You should save on the CPU so you can get a better GPU. Go for something like an i5 3570K and put the money into a 670 or AMD HD7950. Thats what id do.
An i7 is nothing more than a 4 core i5 with hyperthreading enabled. Btw, no game will make full use of 4 cores let alone 8 threads.
An i7 is nothing more than a 4 core i5 with hyperthreading enabled. Btw, no game will make full use of 4 cores let alone 8 threads.
1
so what computer do u recommend
1
Dat i7 doe.
1
this is from cyber power:
CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-4820K Quad-Core 3.70 GHz 10MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011 (All Venom OC Certified)
CS_FAN: Default case fans
ENGRAVING: None
ENGRAVING_MSG:
FA_HDD: None
FAN: Asetek 510LC Liquid Cooling System 120MM Radiator & Fan (Enhanced Cooling Performance + Extreme Silent at 20dBA) (Single Standard 120MM Fan)
FLASHMEDIA: INTERNAL 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer (BLACK COLOR)
FREEBIE_CU: None
FREEBIE_MB: None
FREEBIE_VC1: NVIDIA Free To Play Phase 2 - Never Winter, Warframe , and Marvel Heroes [+0]
FREEBIE_VC2: None
GLASSES: None
HDD: 2TB (2TBx1) SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 64MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (2TB x 2 (2TB Capacity) Raid 1 High Performance with Data Security [+133])
HDD2: 500GB SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD [+59] (Single Drive)
IEEE_CARD: None
IUSB: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
KEYBOARD1: (Keyboard & Mouse Combo) Cooler Master Storm Devastator Gaming Keyboard & Mouse Combo [+0]
MEMORY: 16GB (4GBx4) DDR3/1866MHz Quad Channel Memory (G.SKILL Ripjaws X)
MONITOR: None
MONITOR2: None
MONITOR3: None
MOTHERBOARD: (3-Way SLI/CrossFireX Support) ASUS P9X79 LE Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX w/ Remote GO!, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, 3 Gen3 PCIe X16, 2 PCIe X1 & 1 PCI
NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
NOISEREDUCE1: Power Supply Gasket [+5]
NOISEREDUCE2: Anti-Vibration Fan Mounts [+9]
OS: Microsoft® Windows 8.1 (64-bit Edition)
OVERCLOCK: No Overclocking
POWERSUPPLY: 800 Watts - Standard 80 Plus Certified Power Supply - SLI/CrossFireX Ready
RUSH: NO; READY TO SHIP IN 5~10 BUSINESS DAYS
SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
SPEAKERS: None
TABLET: None
TEMP: None
TUNING: None
TVRC: None
USB: None
USBFLASH: None
USBHD: None
USBX: None
VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2GB GDDR5 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card [-36] (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)
CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-4820K Quad-Core 3.70 GHz 10MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011 (All Venom OC Certified)
CS_FAN: Default case fans
ENGRAVING: None
ENGRAVING_MSG:
FA_HDD: None
FAN: Asetek 510LC Liquid Cooling System 120MM Radiator & Fan (Enhanced Cooling Performance + Extreme Silent at 20dBA) (Single Standard 120MM Fan)
FLASHMEDIA: INTERNAL 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer (BLACK COLOR)
FREEBIE_CU: None
FREEBIE_MB: None
FREEBIE_VC1: NVIDIA Free To Play Phase 2 - Never Winter, Warframe , and Marvel Heroes [+0]
FREEBIE_VC2: None
GLASSES: None
HDD: 2TB (2TBx1) SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 64MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (2TB x 2 (2TB Capacity) Raid 1 High Performance with Data Security [+133])
HDD2: 500GB SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD [+59] (Single Drive)
IEEE_CARD: None
IUSB: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
KEYBOARD1: (Keyboard & Mouse Combo) Cooler Master Storm Devastator Gaming Keyboard & Mouse Combo [+0]
MEMORY: 16GB (4GBx4) DDR3/1866MHz Quad Channel Memory (G.SKILL Ripjaws X)
MONITOR: None
MONITOR2: None
MONITOR3: None
MOTHERBOARD: (3-Way SLI/CrossFireX Support) ASUS P9X79 LE Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX w/ Remote GO!, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, 3 Gen3 PCIe X16, 2 PCIe X1 & 1 PCI
NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
NOISEREDUCE1: Power Supply Gasket [+5]
NOISEREDUCE2: Anti-Vibration Fan Mounts [+9]
OS: Microsoft® Windows 8.1 (64-bit Edition)
OVERCLOCK: No Overclocking
POWERSUPPLY: 800 Watts - Standard 80 Plus Certified Power Supply - SLI/CrossFireX Ready
RUSH: NO; READY TO SHIP IN 5~10 BUSINESS DAYS
SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
SPEAKERS: None
TABLET: None
TEMP: None
TUNING: None
TVRC: None
USB: None
USBFLASH: None
USBHD: None
USBX: None
VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2GB GDDR5 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card [-36] (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)
1
That's very good. You will be able to play most games on high. The seconds hard drive is very good for recording onto! I'd definitely go for it if you just want to play most games decent spec.
1
well would it be good for recording,commentaries, minecraft on high settings (no lag), and just every day computering[/quote]
Yes, definitely. People sometimes don't understand that you can't just change the CPU on a pre-built PC. If I were you, I'd go ahead with it if you are only going to be recording on minecraft with high settings, and general computing.[/quote]
but will it be good for other games on high like cube world or bf4[/quote]
No, you won't be able to play battlefield 4 on high settings. The graphics card is just too weak. You will probably be able to play ultra with 35 FPS, high on 45 FPS and medium on a solid 60.
As for cube world, you should have no problem with that.[/quote]
so it would be a solid computer and how long do you think it would last
Yes, definitely. People sometimes don't understand that you can't just change the CPU on a pre-built PC. If I were you, I'd go ahead with it if you are only going to be recording on minecraft with high settings, and general computing.[/quote]
but will it be good for other games on high like cube world or bf4[/quote]
No, you won't be able to play battlefield 4 on high settings. The graphics card is just too weak. You will probably be able to play ultra with 35 FPS, high on 45 FPS and medium on a solid 60.
As for cube world, you should have no problem with that.[/quote]
so it would be a solid computer and how long do you think it would last
1
well would it be good for recording,commentaries, minecraft on high settings (no lag), and just every day computering
1
Yes, definitely. People sometimes don't understand that you can't just change the CPU on a pre-built PC. If I were you, I'd go ahead with it if you are only going to be recording on minecraft with high settings, and general computing.[/quote]
but will it be good for other games on high like cube world or bf4[/quote]
No, you won't be able to play battlefield 4 on high settings. The graphics card is just too weak. You will probably be able to play ultra with 35 FPS, high on 45 FPS and medium on a solid 60.
As for cube world, you should have no problem with that.[/quote]
so it would be a solid computer and how long do you think it would last[/quote]
It appears to be made by a fairly well known brand. It should last around 4 years before it breaks, but I can't guarantee anything. It will be very solid for games like Skyrim, Minecraft, Cube World, etc. Just remember that you won't be able to play battlefield 4 or anything like that on ultra or high.
but will it be good for other games on high like cube world or bf4[/quote]
No, you won't be able to play battlefield 4 on high settings. The graphics card is just too weak. You will probably be able to play ultra with 35 FPS, high on 45 FPS and medium on a solid 60.
As for cube world, you should have no problem with that.[/quote]
so it would be a solid computer and how long do you think it would last[/quote]
It appears to be made by a fairly well known brand. It should last around 4 years before it breaks, but I can't guarantee anything. It will be very solid for games like Skyrim, Minecraft, Cube World, etc. Just remember that you won't be able to play battlefield 4 or anything like that on ultra or high.
1
Yes, definitely. People sometimes don't understand that you can't just change the CPU on a pre-built PC. If I were you, I'd go ahead with it if you are only going to be recording on minecraft with high settings, and general computing.
1
I suggested both of them.
The Vibox is a much more powerful build, but unnoticeable parts such as the motherboard are very cheap. You will probably get around 2 years max out of it. Vibox also have been using refurbished PC parts in the past (and probably still do), and are also probably made in very poor conditions (damp garage, no static protections, etc).
The Advent is a very reliable build. It is fairly cheap (£470), and packs a decent punch. The PSU is 410 watts, so you will only be able to upgrade to the gtx 650 graphics card before you have to buy a new PSU. If all you are looking for is a decent fps (150) and to be able to record, this is your best choice.
Source: I have own the Advent and have done a lot of research in the past about Vibox.
The Vibox is a much more powerful build, but unnoticeable parts such as the motherboard are very cheap. You will probably get around 2 years max out of it. Vibox also have been using refurbished PC parts in the past (and probably still do), and are also probably made in very poor conditions (damp garage, no static protections, etc).
The Advent is a very reliable build. It is fairly cheap (£470), and packs a decent punch. The PSU is 410 watts, so you will only be able to upgrade to the gtx 650 graphics card before you have to buy a new PSU. If all you are looking for is a decent fps (150) and to be able to record, this is your best choice.
Source: I have own the Advent and have done a lot of research in the past about Vibox.
1
so to get a very long time out of a computer for my needs you suggest the Advent ?
can you send me a link
can you send me a link
1
well what if i took the one that i was getting and then just add what ever you guys think i should add like ram, memory better graphics ect. ect.
1
and building a PC is soooo easy, there are tutorials everywhere on youtube but i would recommend either LInusTechTips or Carey holzmans tutorials
1
now why would you trust me?, well i've read a 1000 page book about computers front to back, i've watched over 50 computer building and part choosing tutorials and i own a custom built pc myself
1
Ok, for minecraft and video recording i would recommend this:
Processor Intel I3 4130, very fast and because of recording it will be worth it
GPU: nVidia GTX 650 TI, very nice GPU plenty of cuda cores for editing and rendering will run mc at 160-190fps, Now if you're planning on doing other high end gaming go for the 660-670
Case: your choice just make sure its MICRO ATX compatible
MOBO Gigabyte b85M micro atx motherboard
Ram: Corsair vengance 8GB, plenty for what your doing and very fast and you can upgrade to 16GBs in the future if you so desire
PSU:corsair CX500w, very overkill but if you plan on upgrading it in future i'd use that
HDD: 1TB seagate barrucuda, now if you planning on doing very high quality videos and planning on saving them forever choose the 1.5to 2TB version
Processor Intel I3 4130, very fast and because of recording it will be worth it
GPU: nVidia GTX 650 TI, very nice GPU plenty of cuda cores for editing and rendering will run mc at 160-190fps, Now if you're planning on doing other high end gaming go for the 660-670
Case: your choice just make sure its MICRO ATX compatible
MOBO Gigabyte b85M micro atx motherboard
Ram: Corsair vengance 8GB, plenty for what your doing and very fast and you can upgrade to 16GBs in the future if you so desire
PSU:corsair CX500w, very overkill but if you plan on upgrading it in future i'd use that
HDD: 1TB seagate barrucuda, now if you planning on doing very high quality videos and planning on saving them forever choose the 1.5to 2TB version
1
is this a custom built computer or a prebuilt
if so what is the name
if so what is the name
1
Why not a FX-6300 and 7850?
1
[deleted]
1
Guys, he wants a prebuilt PC. He does not need/benefit from having this advice.
1
I think I should get one too.
Click to reveal
Processor - AMD FX-8350 4.0 GHz 8-core AM3+
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3 990X AM3+ ATX
Processor cooler - Noctua NH-U9B SE2 (or Noctua NH-D14)
Graphics driver - Asus MATRIX-HD7970-P-3GD5 Radeon HD7970 3 GB GDDR5
Hard Drive - Seagate Barracuda 1 TB 64 MB 7200 RPM 3.5" SATA III (6 Gb/s)
RAM - Kingston HyperX Genesis 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) 1600 MHz DDR3 CL9 XMP
and they can be stuffed in: Antec Eleven Hundred ATX
I get OS for free because of DreamSpark.
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3 990X AM3+ ATX
Processor cooler - Noctua NH-U9B SE2 (or Noctua NH-D14)
Graphics driver - Asus MATRIX-HD7970-P-3GD5 Radeon HD7970 3 GB GDDR5
Hard Drive - Seagate Barracuda 1 TB 64 MB 7200 RPM 3.5" SATA III (6 Gb/s)
RAM - Kingston HyperX Genesis 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) 1600 MHz DDR3 CL9 XMP
and they can be stuffed in: Antec Eleven Hundred ATX
I get OS for free because of DreamSpark.
1
thehawk2323...audiocard, and network cards...
Mobo's do a fine job with both of those
1
[deleted]
1
No, please don't get an Alienware. They're overpriced for the parts/specs they want you to pay for since Dell branded them "gaming computers".
1
I agree.
1
RedstonedbaccaIm thinking of getting a new gaming/work computer to use for minecraft and mc vids on youtube is this a good enough computer:
Operating system - Windows 8 64
Processor - 3rd generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3820 processor[3.6GHz,Shared 10 MB Cache]
Memory - 12GB DDR3-1600MHz [2 DIMM ]
Hard drive - 2TB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
Graphics card - 2GB Nvidia GeForce GTX 645[DX11,DVI,DP,HDMI,DVI to VGA Dongle]
Optical drive - Blu-ray player & SuperMulti DVD burner
it also has liquid cooling and 600 watt power supply please help
Check out an evga gtx 660 ti people say it works a lot better then the 645
1
This is my super duper ultra awesome gaming thing:
I lied...But hey beers still good! x3
I lied...But hey beers still good! x3
1
how does this one look guys
3.9GHz AMD FX 6350 Six-Core Vishera Processor (Turbo Speed 4.2GHz)
16GB of DDR3 1333Mhz RAM
2000GB (2TB) Hard Drive Storage Space
AMD Radeon HD 7850 2GB Dedicated Advanced Graphics Card
Gigabyte 78LMT-USB3 Motherboard & Drivers
3.9GHz AMD FX 6350 Six-Core Vishera Processor (Turbo Speed 4.2GHz)
16GB of DDR3 1333Mhz RAM
2000GB (2TB) Hard Drive Storage Space
AMD Radeon HD 7850 2GB Dedicated Advanced Graphics Card
Gigabyte 78LMT-USB3 Motherboard & Drivers
1
Much better than the first build. You only need 8 gbs of RAM.for gaming. A 2 TB hard drive isn't really needed, just get a 1 TB one and you should be fine. A 7850 is a decent card. It will meet your needs quite well. That motherboard is on an old chipset. You should definitely get at least a 970 chipset motherboard such as this.
1
so just when i get the computer just add that mother board on?
1
It is a prebuilt PC - you won't be able to. If you want to get a modern PC, I unfortunately cannot give you one with a huge amount of power, but this will do nicely for minecraft and recording.
Advent DT2111
The graphics card is bad (but the rest of it is very good). If you want to play other more powerful games, buy that PC, take out the graphics card (sell on ebay) and buy an 'Evga GTX 650 ti SSC'.[/quote]
well which one would be better this one or the second one i found
Advent DT2111
The graphics card is bad (but the rest of it is very good). If you want to play other more powerful games, buy that PC, take out the graphics card (sell on ebay) and buy an 'Evga GTX 650 ti SSC'.[/quote]
well which one would be better this one or the second one i found
view more replies ( 1 )
view more replies ( 19 )
