4
Rob333
Hello comrades, since a few months ago I started thinking about what is a homeland, and then I noticed that it is possible to find different kind of homelands, and then I decided that I must share this opinion with PMC, but I decided to make it something like the quote of the year but a little different:
For me, there are 4 kinds of homeland: The birthing one, the spiritual one, the inhabitating one and the ancestral one, everyone has all of htem, but not everyone have for each one a different land, if all your ancestors are 100% Mexican because they were indigenous, and you are Mexican and you never move to another country and your soul and culture is really Mexican and you were born in Mexico, Mexico would be at the same time the 4 types of homeland for you, but then, you can be born in Colombia, move to the US and accept it as a kind of homeland, have Spaniard ancestors but then identify culturally and spiritually a lot with another country, and if you visit that country and say that you're not from there anyone would get surprised of how much you look like if you were from that country and not from another, that would make you have 4 different countries as homelands, 1 per each type of homeland, under other contexts you can have 3 countries or territories because of some of the kinds repeating the same country, or you could have more than 1 spiritual homeland, the spiritual homeland is the only kind of homeland that can have multiple nations instead of only 1, and also the spiritual homeland or homelands are the most difficult type of homeland to find because if you want to discover your spiritual homeland or homelands, you need to know deeply all countries and explore them a lot and travel around the entire world, then that is how you'll discover what is/are your homeland(s), but you can still have a guess of what your spiritual homeland is by thinking what are your favorite countries in the world, then after you do, you can get ready to travel to those countries and see if they really are your spiritual homeland! Many people have moved to their spiritual homeland, an example is Paul Robeson, an Afro-American who moved in the 1930's to the Soviet Union and got in love with that country and became kinda patriotic towards Soviet Union, he found in Soviet Union the greatest equality in the world, and saw in communism a hope to save humanity, after this travel and realization, he stayed in the Soviet Union, he sang music, he translated Soviet Anthem to English, he learned more than 30 languages; this love from him towards Soviet Union even if his birthing homeland was the US, proves that he found in Soviet Union his spiritual homeland.
Finally, I'll end with inhabitating homelands, they are the country or land where you live, many migrants go every year to live to the US, and they get a good life there, making the US become their inhabitating homeland, and they are good with it because they live good, but still they'll miss their traditions, their friends, beloved ones and family, so that is a sign of how they love their birthing homeland but that due to struggles that their birthing homelands suffer everyday force them to leave all what they love and move to another land. Between all inhabitating homelands, the US is the one with more problems, they have a lack of real patriotism, they're kinda separated, US patriotism is in troubles and people are kinda disorganized as society, and then there's a huge population of foreigners, then discrimination grows as well as social problems, they'll blame the migrants then, and will try to get them out, then when they get it, they see their mistake they have made... One of the greatest problems with the US in social terms and as homeland, is that they have not exactly an own identity, even their name has not an own identity, because they just chose as name for their nation the same name as the continent, which makes them have a name with not an own identity, and due to that and Manifest Destiny, their love to "America" isn't exactly to their country, but towards a project of nation that proposes something that they will never reach, so that makes people get less excited and that can make them sad, decresing their patriotism and making them feel kinda empty because homeland is very important to humans; then society is polarized, the politics are polarized, they only have 2 main parties, other countries like Mexico have at least like 4 or 5 main parties, the people are polarized and not united, and there's also the fact that migrants are who have helped the US the most and some identify now as Americans, but the original US homeland consists in the original 13 Colonies that got independence from the British Empire, and then they expanded a lot, and that's the problem of expanding that much, the US got in war with Mexico in 1846, and they won it in 1848, gaining the 55% of Mexican territory from that time, then they bought a territory known as La Mesilla (Gadsden Purchase), and now there are many Mexican migrants in the land that was Mexican, and now many Mexicans in Mexico and those southern US lands identify themselves not with the US but with The Mexican Nation, which is a nationalist idea of forming again the First Mexican Empire, similar to Russian nostalgia for Soviet Union, but I won't explain here what is for me a nation and a country, then this thing about not identifying with the US is a problem because patriotism decreases, which makes people less united, bringing them to get bigger unstability.
After finished this message, I just wanna wish you all a very prosperous New Year and a happy New Year day and happy New Year's Eve!!! (yeah I said it kinda messy XD)
For me, there are 4 kinds of homeland: The birthing one, the spiritual one, the inhabitating one and the ancestral one, everyone has all of htem, but not everyone have for each one a different land, if all your ancestors are 100% Mexican because they were indigenous, and you are Mexican and you never move to another country and your soul and culture is really Mexican and you were born in Mexico, Mexico would be at the same time the 4 types of homeland for you, but then, you can be born in Colombia, move to the US and accept it as a kind of homeland, have Spaniard ancestors but then identify culturally and spiritually a lot with another country, and if you visit that country and say that you're not from there anyone would get surprised of how much you look like if you were from that country and not from another, that would make you have 4 different countries as homelands, 1 per each type of homeland, under other contexts you can have 3 countries or territories because of some of the kinds repeating the same country, or you could have more than 1 spiritual homeland, the spiritual homeland is the only kind of homeland that can have multiple nations instead of only 1, and also the spiritual homeland or homelands are the most difficult type of homeland to find because if you want to discover your spiritual homeland or homelands, you need to know deeply all countries and explore them a lot and travel around the entire world, then that is how you'll discover what is/are your homeland(s), but you can still have a guess of what your spiritual homeland is by thinking what are your favorite countries in the world, then after you do, you can get ready to travel to those countries and see if they really are your spiritual homeland! Many people have moved to their spiritual homeland, an example is Paul Robeson, an Afro-American who moved in the 1930's to the Soviet Union and got in love with that country and became kinda patriotic towards Soviet Union, he found in Soviet Union the greatest equality in the world, and saw in communism a hope to save humanity, after this travel and realization, he stayed in the Soviet Union, he sang music, he translated Soviet Anthem to English, he learned more than 30 languages; this love from him towards Soviet Union even if his birthing homeland was the US, proves that he found in Soviet Union his spiritual homeland.
Finally, I'll end with inhabitating homelands, they are the country or land where you live, many migrants go every year to live to the US, and they get a good life there, making the US become their inhabitating homeland, and they are good with it because they live good, but still they'll miss their traditions, their friends, beloved ones and family, so that is a sign of how they love their birthing homeland but that due to struggles that their birthing homelands suffer everyday force them to leave all what they love and move to another land. Between all inhabitating homelands, the US is the one with more problems, they have a lack of real patriotism, they're kinda separated, US patriotism is in troubles and people are kinda disorganized as society, and then there's a huge population of foreigners, then discrimination grows as well as social problems, they'll blame the migrants then, and will try to get them out, then when they get it, they see their mistake they have made... One of the greatest problems with the US in social terms and as homeland, is that they have not exactly an own identity, even their name has not an own identity, because they just chose as name for their nation the same name as the continent, which makes them have a name with not an own identity, and due to that and Manifest Destiny, their love to "America" isn't exactly to their country, but towards a project of nation that proposes something that they will never reach, so that makes people get less excited and that can make them sad, decresing their patriotism and making them feel kinda empty because homeland is very important to humans; then society is polarized, the politics are polarized, they only have 2 main parties, other countries like Mexico have at least like 4 or 5 main parties, the people are polarized and not united, and there's also the fact that migrants are who have helped the US the most and some identify now as Americans, but the original US homeland consists in the original 13 Colonies that got independence from the British Empire, and then they expanded a lot, and that's the problem of expanding that much, the US got in war with Mexico in 1846, and they won it in 1848, gaining the 55% of Mexican territory from that time, then they bought a territory known as La Mesilla (Gadsden Purchase), and now there are many Mexican migrants in the land that was Mexican, and now many Mexicans in Mexico and those southern US lands identify themselves not with the US but with The Mexican Nation, which is a nationalist idea of forming again the First Mexican Empire, similar to Russian nostalgia for Soviet Union, but I won't explain here what is for me a nation and a country, then this thing about not identifying with the US is a problem because patriotism decreases, which makes people less united, bringing them to get bigger unstability.
After finished this message, I just wanna wish you all a very prosperous New Year and a happy New Year day and happy New Year's Eve!!! (yeah I said it kinda messy XD)
Create an account or sign in to comment.
6
2
I came here after a long time because I am overthinking it on a more regional level. I had a discussion with my friends about patriotism and almost everyone came to a conclusion that they relate to a smaller area as a homeland more than to the entire country, so I think that I can apply it too.
My history homework mentioned "the place you come from" and I didn't know what is it. The place where I was born, that has nothing to do with anything but stays in my papers forever, no matter where I move? The place where I have lived for my entire life, even though it doesn't always feel like home? The place where I go to school, which is the furthest from living there but sometimes I have to oversimplify that it's where I live?
I don't fully consider them the place where I come from because I don't come from there if you look at a longer period of time. My parents moved here a few years before I was born and they come from different areas. I follow traditions and quirks from those places, not the one where I live. I used to have problems with understanding people from nearby villages and I understand my mom's relatives even though they sometimes speak another language. One of the ancestral homelands is significantly different from the place where I live and the rest of the country, so it feels so much like another homeland.
And finally the spiritual ones. There are so many places that feel like home even though I've been there only a few times. (Trying to explain to that cute burrito seller that you actually don't live there, you're only on a school trip and you want to come back one day but you live so far away).
It's so complicated.
My history homework mentioned "the place you come from" and I didn't know what is it. The place where I was born, that has nothing to do with anything but stays in my papers forever, no matter where I move? The place where I have lived for my entire life, even though it doesn't always feel like home? The place where I go to school, which is the furthest from living there but sometimes I have to oversimplify that it's where I live?
I don't fully consider them the place where I come from because I don't come from there if you look at a longer period of time. My parents moved here a few years before I was born and they come from different areas. I follow traditions and quirks from those places, not the one where I live. I used to have problems with understanding people from nearby villages and I understand my mom's relatives even though they sometimes speak another language. One of the ancestral homelands is significantly different from the place where I live and the rest of the country, so it feels so much like another homeland.
And finally the spiritual ones. There are so many places that feel like home even though I've been there only a few times. (Trying to explain to that cute burrito seller that you actually don't live there, you're only on a school trip and you want to come back one day but you live so far away).
It's so complicated.
1
that's so deep honestly...
3
Since this has a largely politcal context, the problem with homelands is that it gets caught and convoluted in the discussion of land rights as a political tool. This occurs when both parties in the debate have legitimate land claims to territory
E.g. For the Israel-Palestine conflict who has greater land rights to the Palestinian region?
The Jews, where it was ancestral homeland before they were kicked out by the Romans, and where a majority of them legally bought land since the 1900s to statehood (a minority of Jews lived on the land since the explusion of their race).
Or the Arabs (Palestinians since 1964) who only lived there as part of the Ottoman Empire from around 1840.
Both these races had legitimate claims to the Palestine region, the Jews wanted their spiritual and ancestral homeland, whilst the arabs wanted their less ancestral and more birthing/inhabitant homeland.
Other cases include Africa post ww2, China and India border conflicts, Chinese conflicts with neighbouring SEA countries in South China Sea as well as Taiwan, Ukraine and its fight for independence since the 18th century etc
Also I'm a materialist, so I dont really have a comment on the personal side of homeland
E.g. For the Israel-Palestine conflict who has greater land rights to the Palestinian region?
The Jews, where it was ancestral homeland before they were kicked out by the Romans, and where a majority of them legally bought land since the 1900s to statehood (a minority of Jews lived on the land since the explusion of their race).
Or the Arabs (Palestinians since 1964) who only lived there as part of the Ottoman Empire from around 1840.
Both these races had legitimate claims to the Palestine region, the Jews wanted their spiritual and ancestral homeland, whilst the arabs wanted their less ancestral and more birthing/inhabitant homeland.
Other cases include Africa post ww2, China and India border conflicts, Chinese conflicts with neighbouring SEA countries in South China Sea as well as Taiwan, Ukraine and its fight for independence since the 18th century etc
Also I'm a materialist, so I dont really have a comment on the personal side of homeland
2
Israel-Palestine have the same land rights as both have been living in that land since thousands of years probably, they both belong to there, so, in that case, both have the same lands as homeland, and there can be even homelands inside other homelands, for example, something that I forgot to mention was the indigenous people in North America, and precisely also Israel and Palestine (sorry for that, ADHD), in the case of Mexico (because it is the best one for me to tell an example of this), there are many ethnical indigenous groups original from here, some of those don't identify themselves as Mexicans because they don't identify with that same culture, and they have authonomy over their own communities due to a proposal by Emiliano Zapata during Mexican Revolution, so they consider their own town as their homeland, then Mexicans consider Mexico as their homeland, so that makes a homeland be inside another homeland, in the case of Palestine and Israel this is what happens, but Jewish identity is more religious because they have been expulsed from many countries, they united again as a people due to their religion,that after centuries of not having a homeland, and the Israel-Palestine conflict is not a conflict about homeland, it is religious, each government has much influence from their own religion and claim that land as only theirs, so, they need to make that land a shared homeland, and with a neutral and laic government that cares for both nations' peoples and respects both religions also promoting peace and respect between both. And non-Arab Palestinians already lived there since the same time as Jews.
I didn't mention China or the border conflicts because they are part of other terms not related to these kinds of homeland, I am still working on redacting about those problems and those other terms, but when I do, it might get a little materialist, but I can say that those are not stuff related to homelands, that stuff is related to countries, nations and projects of nations, and those are the terms that I'm developing, but I'll tell you 1 example of each one: The countries on map are countries, in that work I'll explain them; things like the lands lost by Mexico, or the German speaking territories in Europe where there was a desire of union between all of them during 19th century are nations, and things like Hitler's Lebensraum were projects of nation, and it is specially the projects of nation the main cause of border conflicts, for example, the plan to get the German Lebensraum led to Germany starting World War 2, I'd probably consider the Chinese conflicts with India as a project of nation, as well as Taiwan and the dominion over the South China Sea, but the sea is not a homeland, a sea cannot be considered as part of a homeland, the territorial seas are part of a country, but not of a homeland, homelands and nations are more a thing related to communities and individuals, meanwhile countries and projects of nation are more a materialist thing and are related to the material possesions, Africa has its own land conflicts, European countries had their projects of nation during colonization of Africa, and that split up different homelands and now they're claiming them back, and then the countries get conflicts for lands, but those conflicts in Africa are because projects of nation of Europeans. Independence of countries is because they get a different homeland identity and then they create a new project of nation for themselves that includes independence and in some cases apart of independence they also propose more stuff after gaining independence.
I didn't mention China or the border conflicts because they are part of other terms not related to these kinds of homeland, I am still working on redacting about those problems and those other terms, but when I do, it might get a little materialist, but I can say that those are not stuff related to homelands, that stuff is related to countries, nations and projects of nations, and those are the terms that I'm developing, but I'll tell you 1 example of each one: The countries on map are countries, in that work I'll explain them; things like the lands lost by Mexico, or the German speaking territories in Europe where there was a desire of union between all of them during 19th century are nations, and things like Hitler's Lebensraum were projects of nation, and it is specially the projects of nation the main cause of border conflicts, for example, the plan to get the German Lebensraum led to Germany starting World War 2, I'd probably consider the Chinese conflicts with India as a project of nation, as well as Taiwan and the dominion over the South China Sea, but the sea is not a homeland, a sea cannot be considered as part of a homeland, the territorial seas are part of a country, but not of a homeland, homelands and nations are more a thing related to communities and individuals, meanwhile countries and projects of nation are more a materialist thing and are related to the material possesions, Africa has its own land conflicts, European countries had their projects of nation during colonization of Africa, and that split up different homelands and now they're claiming them back, and then the countries get conflicts for lands, but those conflicts in Africa are because projects of nation of Europeans. Independence of countries is because they get a different homeland identity and then they create a new project of nation for themselves that includes independence and in some cases apart of independence they also propose more stuff after gaining independence.
2
Paul Robeson, an Afro-American who moved in the 1930's to the Soviet Union and got in love with that country and became kinda patriotic towards Soviet Union, he found in Soviet Union the greatest equality in the worldHe did not become patriotic towards the soviet union, he was simply a socialist, interested in the egalitarian laws the soviet union had and advocated them back at home for equal black rights.
The creator of socialism, Karl Marx was a German.
His return to the soviets in 1949 was to find Itzek Feffer, a Jewish poet he met during 1943(?). Soviet awards and praises given to him post-WW2 was because he was purely a socialist.
In the Interwar period many countries, some of the biggest ones being France (Popular Front (leftist political alliance) winning the 1936 elections) and Germany (before Hitler came to power) had a lot of socialist support. I'm sure many people there had patriotism and looking to change the country for better and was not thinking they belonged in the Soviet Union just because they were Communist.
they have a lack of real patriotism, they're kinda separated, US patriotism is in troubles and people are kinda disorganized as societyUSA patriotism is kinda non-existent due to an uncountable amount of factors, the biggest ones being Multiculturalism, factors that do not inspire nationalism (such as a potential war on borders like Ukraine, Poland, Taiwan etc) and the USA's unpopular hard power/military projection as a world power. Additionally at this point there is no political cohesion as both left and right sides are at massive odds and heading to their respective extremes.
and those southern US lands identify themselves not with the US but with The Mexican NationHuh? Is there a source for this? They're most likely talking about their ancestral/cultural homeland but knows that they're in USA at that point.
If there was a significant population that was trying to return mexican land everyone in the USA would've heard about it by now
2
Paul Robeson was a mistake by me due to English being too confusing for me, I sometimes express myself wrong, however, Paul Robeson indeed liked the egalitarian laws in Soviet Union, and he even went to Spain during the Spanish Civil War, but however, the point was not even to mention Paul Robeson, I didn't find any better way to give an example of people finding their spiritual homeland.
The US patriotism thing, that thing that you explained is what I explained there, their army does not fight for their country anymore, for example, in Vietnam they fought for another country, and their wars are for political interests and not exactly for "making their nation greater or prosperous" (that might not be the best explanation either) like for example Prussia during Franco-Prussian War, nor for self defense like they did during WW2 after Japan invaded Pearl Harbor. Specially that part of my text that you quoted was an opinion, I think that their patriotism is kinda in troubles, and when I said that htey are disorganized as society I said it because I know people who can confirm it because they live there, and by what you're saying about multiculturalism, I can only confirm my theory about homelands, they accept the US as a homeland, as the homeland they're living in currently, but their culture is different because their birthing homeland is different and they got the culture from that homeland, and they can even miss that other land.
Truly all political groups are heading to their respective extremes, and truly the US power on the world is controversial and can makes them kinda unpopular, specially for other countries.
This one is something that the governments from Mexico and the US don't talk about because they're simply focused on other stuff, but there are already some people who have made theories about how in a few decades there will be so many Mexicans in the southern states that they will give the Mexicans there special rights to prevent social problems, and maybe even apply some Mexican laws, those are theories of what will happen in the future, but based in identity changes in those territories, and actually, decades ago there was a Chicano movement where those former Mexican territories were called Aztlan, they wanted to reunify those lands with Mexico, and here in Mexico there is really a nostalgia for those territories lost to the US, it is similar to the Russian nostalgia for Soviet Union, I can really tell and many people here can really tell, it is also not very mentioned but hte feeling is there.
And yes, they know that they're in the US, but many people thinks that those lands should be Mexican again because it was not fair the way the US got them from Mexico.
The US patriotism thing, that thing that you explained is what I explained there, their army does not fight for their country anymore, for example, in Vietnam they fought for another country, and their wars are for political interests and not exactly for "making their nation greater or prosperous" (that might not be the best explanation either) like for example Prussia during Franco-Prussian War, nor for self defense like they did during WW2 after Japan invaded Pearl Harbor. Specially that part of my text that you quoted was an opinion, I think that their patriotism is kinda in troubles, and when I said that htey are disorganized as society I said it because I know people who can confirm it because they live there, and by what you're saying about multiculturalism, I can only confirm my theory about homelands, they accept the US as a homeland, as the homeland they're living in currently, but their culture is different because their birthing homeland is different and they got the culture from that homeland, and they can even miss that other land.
Truly all political groups are heading to their respective extremes, and truly the US power on the world is controversial and can makes them kinda unpopular, specially for other countries.
This one is something that the governments from Mexico and the US don't talk about because they're simply focused on other stuff, but there are already some people who have made theories about how in a few decades there will be so many Mexicans in the southern states that they will give the Mexicans there special rights to prevent social problems, and maybe even apply some Mexican laws, those are theories of what will happen in the future, but based in identity changes in those territories, and actually, decades ago there was a Chicano movement where those former Mexican territories were called Aztlan, they wanted to reunify those lands with Mexico, and here in Mexico there is really a nostalgia for those territories lost to the US, it is similar to the Russian nostalgia for Soviet Union, I can really tell and many people here can really tell, it is also not very mentioned but hte feeling is there.
And yes, they know that they're in the US, but many people thinks that those lands should be Mexican again because it was not fair the way the US got them from Mexico.
