totally agree, just one question to the moderators, if some moderator appears to have a lotcked a thread simply because he / she doesn't agree with what is being said on the forum, but still doesn't go against any of the rules, should we report them?

I agree with Zooss, the forum's rules are pretty vague and basic. I wouldn't mind some more concrete guidelines for both us as users and for the moderators.

There is a high lacking of detail in the forum rules and I don't seem all that many threads get locked for possible flame, but yes forum mods need to get a bit better at not locking discussion threads.

Why lock a thread at all instead of just removing the posts that flame, or temp. ban them to stop them posting there...?

Having the topic locked is just as much punishment to the one that started the thread if he had fun with the discussion.

So yeah, I suppose what we can draw from this... Report more posts!

ME1312

Charlizard

MGB_Could people stop requesting threads to be locked

This is against the rules. Report the people that say this and I will gladly ban them. I have a hatred for people that do this or similar things - especially when they don't report.

It's common knowledge that people can't have a civil discussion on PMC. Sure, there can be civil discussions, but there's always 1 person that comes in and deraiils it that then makes the entire thread toxic.

I hate the forums so I barely even visit so this may be biased but I really don't want to watch over a forum thread - refreshing every minute - to see if someone is being an idiot/flaming. I don't have the time nor patience to do this.
Not to mention how waiting for a flame war to start isn't really the best way of keeping the forums civil. The police don't wait IRL for a riot to break out. They try and stop it ever starting.

But those are just my 2 cents and if some mods do wish to babysit some threads that will most likely be derailed/flamed, be my guest. I just don't enjoy doing it nor see the point in doing it.

I'm pretty sure you don't have to sit and wait, you just browse PMC and watch the "Last 20 Posts"

That's pretty much just an inaccurate way of watching it.

If we weren't to lurk on the thread it would more than likely fail. In these types of discussions it only takes one ignorant comment to derail the entire thread.
This exact thing happened on the Bukkit thread, I believe, a few weeks ago. One guy came in, asserted his opinion, and insulted others, and 70% of the thread was people arguing with him. Nobody was watching that thread and by the time I had seen it (which was about 1 hour after his initial post) there were 10 pages more of posts - most of which were people responding to him. The discussion in that thread was good and needed so I didn't immediately delete the derailed thread. Instead, I banned 12 people - 3 of which were permanent, I believe. I removed several dozen posts and had to make my own post there, whilst locking the thread temporarily, telling people to follow the rules. We shouldn't have to do this. Even if forum moderating wasn't backwards already *cough* Paril *cough* it's a waste of time cleaning up 10+ pages of trash and having to watch the thread. I had banned the people that were arguing, but people still had seen it and I had to watch the thread for the next hour making sure no-one else was stupid enough to respond to him.

What I'm trying to say is that 1 comment can, and has, derailed entire threads. 99% of the time this is on controversial threads (such as Bukkit shutting down and religion) and it really isn't worth the time to watch these threads to make sure they don't derail.

They do need close watching as even if a few people see a flaming comment and respond to it, more people are gonna see their comments, and so on. It's like dominoes. If we don't watch the thread it's gonna come crashing down.

I know this was long-winded and I didn't intend for it to be. If you didn't understand something that I was trying to see, please tell me.

EDIT: just saw someone saying about reporting posts.
If only. If people only ever reported these comments that were derailing the thread rather than responding to them we could discuss anything. Sadly, this never happens.
I guess the posts don't even need to be reported. If people just ignored them rather than taking their bait we could have proper discussions that didn't need babysitting.

ME1312

Charlizard

MGB_Could people stop requesting threads to be locked

This is against the rules. Report the people that say this and I will gladly ban them. I have a hatred for people that do this or similar things - especially when they don't report.

It's common knowledge that people can't have a civil discussion on PMC. Sure, there can be civil discussions, but there's always 1 person that comes in and deraiils it that then makes the entire thread toxic.

I hate the forums so I barely even visit so this may be biased but I really don't want to watch over a forum thread - refreshing every minute - to see if someone is being an idiot/flaming. I don't have the time nor patience to do this.
Not to mention how waiting for a flame war to start isn't really the best way of keeping the forums civil. The police don't wait IRL for a riot to break out. They try and stop it ever starting.

But those are just my 2 cents and if some mods do wish to babysit some threads that will most likely be derailed/flamed, be my guest. I just don't enjoy doing it nor see the point in doing it.

I'm pretty sure you don't have to sit and wait, you just browse PMC and watch the "Last 20 Posts"

This involves constantly refreshing the page and looking in that section.

I agree with MGB_, however. If people reported more posts, perhaps some threads wouldn't be locked so early on.

Charlizard

MGB_Could people stop requesting threads to be locked

This is against the rules. Report the people that say this and I will gladly ban them. I have a hatred for people that do this or similar things - especially when they don't report.

It's common knowledge that people can't have a civil discussion on PMC. Sure, there can be civil discussions, but there's always 1 person that comes in and deraiils it that then makes the entire thread toxic.

I hate the forums so I barely even visit so this may be biased but I really don't want to watch over a forum thread - refreshing every minute - to see if someone is being an idiot/flaming. I don't have the time nor patience to do this.
Not to mention how waiting for a flame war to start isn't really the best way of keeping the forums civil. The police don't wait IRL for a riot to break out. They try and stop it ever starting.

But those are just my 2 cents and if some mods do wish to babysit some threads that will most likely be derailed/flamed, be my guest. I just don't enjoy doing it nor see the point in doing it.

I'm pretty sure you don't have to sit and wait, you just browse PMC and watch the "Last 20 Posts"

These are the kind of forum threads I love reading. Because as of now, mostly everyone has contributed with their own opinion, and that makes the forums cool imho.

But on the topic that you brought up, I do believe that every thread should be given a chance, but when someone is ignorant enough to make a thread on the most flame-worthy topic ever then I can see why mods will perma-lock it. I remember quite a while ago there was a Thread that was talking about Why do Republicans hate Homosexual people. It instantly started with slanders and name calling. So I understand that when a mod sees a thread like that they will just lock it, no questions asked.

I think all threads should be left up unless there is more flame than non-flame, or if the subject is on, or shifts to, politics or religion.

I guess I don't understand what mods consider "flaming", I keep seeing threads get locked for what appears to be for the slightest arguments or because like 2-3 people made immature comments. Which just frustrates me, I feel like almost all threads unless they are super nice kiddie friend and not challenging mentally get locked, almost no exceptions.

The universe thread had a lot more disagreements, but it was not anymore hostile compared to other debate threads I have seen on other forums. But those are not stiffed there for "flaming" so why are they stifled here? People want to have more serious conversations sometimes, even younger people crave that. I don't know why a few bad apples have to ruin it for other people making it so that it's out of the question to have serious discussions here.

This thread is going to go nowhere...
Why? Because it is going to be PMC Staff against members. Personally, I think all threads that could be flame wars should be monitored and watched.

I second this motion

I babysat the universe one because a) I had the time to do so and b) I dont mind a little bit of discussion. But that really depends on what mod is doing what at what time.

My suggestion would be, that if you did want to start a thread that is within our rules but perhaps something that will spark a hell of a lot of conversation / discussion, ASK one of the site mods if they have time to watch it so it doesn't get out of hand. If we know what's going on and are available to moderate, there will be those of us who are happy to help out.

MGB_Could people stop requesting threads to be locked

This is against the rules. Report the people that say this and I will gladly ban them. I have a hatred for people that do this or similar things - especially when they don't report.

It's common knowledge that people can't have a civil discussion on PMC. Sure, there can be civil discussions, but there's always 1 person that comes in and deraiils it that then makes the entire thread toxic.

I hate the forums so I barely even visit so this may be biased but I really don't want to watch over a forum thread - refreshing every minute - to see if someone is being an idiot/flaming. I don't have the time nor patience to do this.
Not to mention how waiting for a flame war to start isn't really the best way of keeping the forums civil. The police don't wait IRL for a riot to break out. They try and stop it ever starting.

But those are just my 2 cents and if some mods do wish to babysit some threads that will most likely be derailed/flamed, be my guest. I just don't enjoy doing it nor see the point in doing it.

But, what is the detraction of waiting till the flaming happens? It could be page 2. It could be page 40. And then, it can be reported, dealt with, thread locked. And the mature people had a fun time.

Recently, both the "Chicken and the Egg" and the "Universe" threads went to around 40 pages with little-to-no flaming. And they were fantastic.

I just think blanket assumptions about what could happen to a thread is... Quite frankly, pointless.

Our moderators are a bit divided on this topic. I will normally lock religious or political discussions because, even while the topic may remain civil for a little while, it always breaks out into arguments or flaming at some point. As a moderator, I feel as though I should be trying to prevent that kind of thing before it happens instead of sitting on a thread I know is going to become a problem and waiting until the flaming or arguing happens before I lock it. Most topics don't have to be treated this way, but political/religious topics do, in my opinion.

Locking a potential "problem thread" isn't about punishing people that are mature and want to have a mature discussion. The fact of the matter is that many of our users are simply not mature enough or do not have enough life experience or social skills to handle this kind of serious discussion and I, as a moderator, have no idea of knowing which users those are when a new, mature thread is posted. It could be the OP. It could be someone who I've known to be a mature, level-headed person a majority of the time and has chosen now to flip out and flame someone.

I think that more serious topics, not religion, should be allowed. There are a lot of mature people on this site. If someone doesn't understand they should be allowed to ask questions and not be judged because they didnt know it. Subjects that I think that should not be allowed is anything discussing illegal things/activites, anything pornographic or graphic. There are a lot of mature people on this site, and I think that more serious topics should be discussed.

I support all of this.

It seems a bit unfair to penalize the group of people who might enjoy philosophical or scientific conversations simply because there's the possibility of something going wrong.

Guys lock this thread! It is going to be a flame war!

Yup. I've seen way too much of this in just the past day or two.

Inb4 someone locks this "serious" thread.

can we please have this thread locked due to possibility of flame war pl0x lAOL sweg

I agree that a thread should be given its fair chance but if said thread contains more flaming than non flaming or just derails completely then it will be locked.

MGB_Hey there, just me coming around to say/request something.

Could people stop requesting threads to be locked/mods stop locking threads simply upon the possibility of flame/very little flame?
As far as I can see, there's nothing in the guidelines against certain topics.
These topics are often the very best to discuss and are entertaining and manageable.

As Zatharel put it:

ZatharelWhile I agree that PMC is no place to discuss serious things, we can't stop a discussion just because we THINK it will be a flame war in the FUTURE.
If we're not looking to discuss who's wrong and who's right, why do we have a forum?

Just a little request.


- Cal

Yes. Go after the flamers who disregard civil discussion, rather than lock the entire thread and punish the innocent.

Locking forum threads keeps problems from bring resolved and could end up making the situation worse. I think it would be better to at least see if the people can sort it out, that way, it's not like everyone's still mad at each other and can't resolve it. Religion is apparently completely against the rules to talk about, also. I can understand if someone is saying like "I hate this religion," but most of the time it isn't like that. Some people are just way too sensitive.

true, true....