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Pyr0mrcowPricklesBecause so many servers use the application system to gain there staff members, players will join a server seeking a staff position rather then playing, most of these players seeking a position are between 8-17 years old, the truth is... They have no idea what they are doing.
This is absolutely true...which is why a minimum time played should be a requirement before making applications. I'm not saying that you should make random people staff, but that it's good to have a variety of people who can connect with your player base, and that people who are fit for the role should be given a chance, regardless of age. As I said, an idiot is an idiot, and idiots/immature people/ect shouldn't be hired unless they show a real effort to change for the better.PricklesTrust me, I know from experience, being a moderator is not fun, banning your best friends from a server is not fun.
If they had to be banned, that's really their own fault...heck, I've done it. Some people get out of control because they have a friend in high places, and they need a good slap of reality. Banned a friend? It's their fault, not yours, and that shouldn't ruin the position. In my opinion, if you're not comfortable with treating everyone equally, again, you shouldn't take a staff position in the first place...PricklesNow on the other hand, if you play like any normal player an get selected by a staff member who has watched you, watched your spelling, grammar, words, etc, then thats another story, they have got to know the player, but with the whole application thing it... "Player:Oh look! a new server! I wanna be staff!! pmay I pls pls pls be moderator?! StaffMember:Apply on the forums" the sad thing is, this happens, And if someone asks like that, why would you even think about sending them to the website to apply?
I often chose based on their in-game behavior when I was running/helping run servers, actually. However, sometimes there are great players who you don't want to bother with the idea of becoming staff. I like it when those same players make applications, because then you know that they're comfortable with the idea and want to help the community improve, rather than being pressured into the job.
It's also helpful on larger servers; not only can you see how professional/relaxed they are in the application, it gives you ideas of who to watch. On servers circulating 200+ regular players, it's easy not to notice individual people.PricklesLets say you goto one of those huge online MMO's, they always say "Do not ask to be a moderator, Asking will lower your chances of ever being one!" And it is for the reasons I just pointed out...
Actually, there's a reason for that: "huge".
Though I mentioned 200+ players on some servers, those games are another animal entirely. League of Legends, Dota, I guess WoW is still popular to some people, whatever game...
You're talking about in some cases, thousands of people. Others, tens of thousands. League alone? The last count was 27million daily. Most don't allow applications, because it'd literally impossible to look at all of them. And yet...
http://www.riotgames.com/careers
Even League has an entire site segment dedicated to allowing people to apply to work with them. Because that's how things work in the real world...Pricklesone other thing, if you are not smart enough to not ask for the position, you arn't fit for it.
You'll only get a job without asking for the position if A) you create the job yourself, B) you know the person giving the job personally, C) the person giving you the job is desperate, or D) you publicly and flamboyantly exhibit something that the person hiring is looking for, and that's rare. Minecraft follows those examples.
The reason for D being rare is that an application shows that the person making it has drive to actually do something. They're willing to work, and again, how does anyone know that you'd be willing to take a job if you don't tell them?
Asking the employee to work makes the person hiring look desperate, whether they are or not.
Applications serve multiple purposes. If the application itself isn't laid out to fit the job, then that's a problem on the company's end.
EDIT:PricklesTrust me, I know from experience, being a moderator is not fun, banning your best friends from a server is not fun.
We apologize for the interruption, but I realized that this quote pretty much sums up the entire argument...
What experience are you talking about, exactly?
This thread is about experience, for the most part...
Prickles was a moderator, and one who has not, as of yet, adjusted to having to do what it takes to keep things stable. Heck, I don't know if that's true, but I'm just assuming for the sake of this argument.
Why am I bringing this quote up again?
Trial_Mod, Moderator, Admin, Artist, Developer, Head Developer, Co-Owner, Owner...
Those are my some of positions related to this, across years.
I should also mention that, as far as Developer-up goes, when I was in those positions...I basically had control of every aspect of the server, it's host, direct file access, ect. Also, I created graphics and and whatnot from Moderator upward, across different servers.
Heck, I even terrorized servers that had bad security for a while, a while back.
Written rules, heavily customized and broke plugins in ways they weren't meant to be broken, worked on/created sites, ect...
The point? Well, I don't mean for this to sound mean, though several posts here probably did to the younger audience...
Compared to me, someone who's only been a Moderator is equivalent to an infant as far as experience in this field goes.
Compare me to...oh, I don't know, Dinnerbone or Jeb_? I'm a speck.
Several of the people posting here, I'm assuming, are lower in experience in this field...than a speck.
Think about that.
So again, I present to you: What is the difference between you, and someone slightly younger with more experience in the field, who is able to handle the pressure of a given job?
Pretty much covered that question already, I think.
Pyr0mrcowPricklesAs for servers who do the whole staff application thing, I totally disagree.
Anyone who "wants" to become a moderator does not know a thing about what they are getting into, it is better for you to just play, be yourself and if the other staff members think you would be a good person for the position, then ok... but all this applying stuff is nonsense.
Sorry, but you must have had some really terrible experiences with servers in general. If there's any person who is dissatisfied with being a staff member anywhere...then they should quit immediately.
It should be a job that's rewarding for both the staff, and the usual players. I'm not saying that they should be treated as gods, but if staff don't get satisfaction from the job they're given, then they're not staff material in the first place, and, by being put in a position of power, are a threat to the server. Basically, a disgruntled employee is going to be a problem at some point.
I honestly don't understand most of these arguments in the slightest...
While I refuse to give out my age on a random website, I can say that I'm out of the realm of this affecting me personally. But an entitlement-seeking idiot is an entitlement-seeking idiot. I've known plenty of those, and the majority of my second high school would beg to differ with the 'older=wiser' argument.
The fact is...there's no such thing as 'growing up'. People remain basically the same throughout their lives. Maturity? Experience? What a joke. The city's desk workers gossip about guys when they think people aren't listening. My last worker pretended to be part of the Cartel, and tried to start fights with everyone in the area when we wouldn't pay him more than everyone else.
A prodigy is a prodigy, an idiot is an idiot, and a normal person is a normal person, no matter the age. Younger people tend to have more creativity, older people sometimes have more restraint. I can't say usually, because I'd be lying. But sometimes, yes.
And each has down-sides; younger people are much more prone to being worked up by trolls. Older people, simply due to experience, become bitter and intolerant.
There're upsides and downsides to old and young age groups; it pretty much balances out. Refusing to hire a 14 year old for staff because of their age is the exact same as refusing to hire a 16--19 year old for a real job because of their age. Both are rampant problems, and both are self-perpetuating. If a person never has a job, they can never gain experience.
If you never hire a newbie, you're leaving yourself open to ignoring the newbie part of your server population's ideas, and ignoring new patterns, like what hack clients are popular, ect.
On the same thread, if you hire nothing but newbies...there's noone to teach them.
Age just...really doesn't matter. Hire the skills you need. Teach people new skills. Put them in jobs that they're good at.
Who cares about the details of how a person becomes useful?
sierramigI've been turned down to numerous things because of the fact I am 13 years old. Honestly I believe that if you are mentally mature enough for something you should be able to do or participate in it. For example: You are applying for staff on a Minecraft server, the minimum age is 16. Wut? I don't see why you need to be that old as long as you can handle responsibility.
EDIT: I didn't make this thread because I applied for staff and got denied. That was an EXAMPLE. I just want to hear your opinions on this subject! Don't be stupid, read the entire thing!
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