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Minecraft Java fanatics
AGTRigorMortis
MediocreJoker101
Serious question, why are there so many Java fanatics on this site who still refuse to admit the flaws with the version of the game they play?
even worse, they flame other people's threads about Java vs bedrock?
It's common knowledge that bedrock edition runs better than Java edition not counting mods, performance wise, if you're discussing mods and content in updates, it's a different topic altogether. it is an ignorant to accuse people of bringing this up of not doing their research or not having a good enough PC build to run it on, plenty of people who play bedrock edition run this game on high end PC's, ever heard of Nvidia RTX technology on GPU's? and AMD Ryzen CPU's? meanwhile Java edition users from what I understand still have to use mods to get realistic shader effects in their game, as Java edition still doesn't have native support for it.
Also, having to mod your game with Optifine to improve a games performance to make up for an otherwise badly optimized game, is totally ridiculous, as optimizing a game is a developers responsibility. If your game isn't optimized and guaranteed to run well on a PC that meets the recommended requirements at the date of purchase, then you're not being given a quality product, how is this even remotely complicated to grasp?
Then we get to the other aspects of bedrock edition, such as multiplat support, why wouldn't anyone want to have crossplay on more devices than just a desktop, laptop or tablet? again Java edition easily loses this category since it only runs in Windows, Linux and Mac. Accessibility of a game is important, if nobody cared about crossplay Microsoft never would've bothered with it as it wouldn't have been viable.
I've brought this issue up in the past, but I'll say it one more time because I'm tired of people who won't leave nostalgia land
to observe reality. Java edition does have some advantages, like the ability to load older versions,
but from a technical standpoint it's clearly a bad version. It's almost like running a game on an emulator,
because of how inefficient it is, although with old games emulation is unfortunately the only viable option
if you don't have the original hardware the game was designed for, and for whatever reason can't get it.
Bedrock edition isn't without its flaws either, it still has a bug where if you travel millions of blocks out from the center, you fall right into the Void and die in survival, in Java edition there's an invisible barrier that prevents this at 30 million blocks Z or X, at positive and negative coordinates respectively. If you don't travel a million blocks out, it has been demonstrated that bedrock edition doesn't have that fatal glitch or much trouble with lag spikes or stuttering, even if you run it with a 32 chunks, 64 chunks or beyond render distance, it's indisputable, no mods needed, and the memory management is automatic, if it needs more RAM and it's available, it'll use it, you don't need to tamper with settings to get it to do the job, many PC games are like that. It may not be an issue that is unique or exclusive to Minecraft Java, but it certainly is an obvious and well known one. I wish those people would think before they respond to people in a public post, Antvenom has covered bedrock edition and Java edition of Minecraft in enough detail on Youtube. And it's easily testable on your own computer, speaking opinions is one thing, but it's annoying when other people put out false information as they often do on these forums.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdCXK5ns1y4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O841UhiNYz0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbunuIDZDbg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZgHZP15zxg
even worse, they flame other people's threads about Java vs bedrock?
It's common knowledge that bedrock edition runs better than Java edition not counting mods, performance wise, if you're discussing mods and content in updates, it's a different topic altogether. it is an ignorant to accuse people of bringing this up of not doing their research or not having a good enough PC build to run it on, plenty of people who play bedrock edition run this game on high end PC's, ever heard of Nvidia RTX technology on GPU's? and AMD Ryzen CPU's? meanwhile Java edition users from what I understand still have to use mods to get realistic shader effects in their game, as Java edition still doesn't have native support for it.
Also, having to mod your game with Optifine to improve a games performance to make up for an otherwise badly optimized game, is totally ridiculous, as optimizing a game is a developers responsibility. If your game isn't optimized and guaranteed to run well on a PC that meets the recommended requirements at the date of purchase, then you're not being given a quality product, how is this even remotely complicated to grasp?
Then we get to the other aspects of bedrock edition, such as multiplat support, why wouldn't anyone want to have crossplay on more devices than just a desktop, laptop or tablet? again Java edition easily loses this category since it only runs in Windows, Linux and Mac. Accessibility of a game is important, if nobody cared about crossplay Microsoft never would've bothered with it as it wouldn't have been viable.
I've brought this issue up in the past, but I'll say it one more time because I'm tired of people who won't leave nostalgia land
to observe reality. Java edition does have some advantages, like the ability to load older versions,
but from a technical standpoint it's clearly a bad version. It's almost like running a game on an emulator,
because of how inefficient it is, although with old games emulation is unfortunately the only viable option
if you don't have the original hardware the game was designed for, and for whatever reason can't get it.
Bedrock edition isn't without its flaws either, it still has a bug where if you travel millions of blocks out from the center, you fall right into the Void and die in survival, in Java edition there's an invisible barrier that prevents this at 30 million blocks Z or X, at positive and negative coordinates respectively. If you don't travel a million blocks out, it has been demonstrated that bedrock edition doesn't have that fatal glitch or much trouble with lag spikes or stuttering, even if you run it with a 32 chunks, 64 chunks or beyond render distance, it's indisputable, no mods needed, and the memory management is automatic, if it needs more RAM and it's available, it'll use it, you don't need to tamper with settings to get it to do the job, many PC games are like that. It may not be an issue that is unique or exclusive to Minecraft Java, but it certainly is an obvious and well known one. I wish those people would think before they respond to people in a public post, Antvenom has covered bedrock edition and Java edition of Minecraft in enough detail on Youtube. And it's easily testable on your own computer, speaking opinions is one thing, but it's annoying when other people put out false information as they often do on these forums.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdCXK5ns1y4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O841UhiNYz0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbunuIDZDbg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZgHZP15zxg
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I can definitely see where the java edition players are coming from, because java edition has far less bugs and far more support, for example, updates getting released sooner, snapshots, as well as other nice features like servers, modding, etc. etc. And that's not to say that java edition is objectively better, because, like you said, bedrock edition has multiplatform support, and allows you to play with your friends without having to host a server or LAN. But the people i really dislike are the edition elitists who are hell bent on going "Java/bedrock edition is objectively the best edition for [x], [y], and [z] reasons!1!!" and then proceed to bash the other person for having the opposite edition. Thats just my view on things though.
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It's common knowledge that bedrock edition runs better than Java edition not counting mods, performance wise, if you're discussing mods and content in updates, it's a different topic altogether.
You seem a bit biased towards Bedrock Edition more than Java Edition. Anyway, the reason there are many mods in Java Edition is because it is built in Java itself, and decompiling a Java class file is easy, given a proper decompiler. Meanwhile, in Bedrock Edition, the developer will choose which parts can be changed, which means there's a limit of what you can do with mods in Bedrock Edition.
it is an ignorant to accuse people of bringing this up of not doing their research or not having a good enough PC build to run it on, plenty of people who play bedrock edition run this game on high end PC's…
I get that. I once tried playing on Bedrock Edition, and the experience is kind of strange since everything looks unnaturally smooth. However, performance is not the only factor to consider. There are many reasons why people still choose to play Java Edition than Bedrock Edition, probably due it being the original version, the difference in game physics and game mechanics, or maybe because they want to play in Hypixel, which only supports Java Edition.
Also, having to mod your game with Optifine to improve a games performance to make up for an otherwise badly optimized game, is totally ridiculous, as optimizing a game is a developers responsibility. If your game isn't optimized and guaranteed to run well on a PC that meets the recommended requirements at the date of purchase, then you're not being given a quality product, how is this even remotely complicated to grasp?
Given the fact that Java Edition is written in… well… Java, it is the main cause of the game having low performance. Since Java is both a compiled and interpreted language, it is slower than any compiled language (e.g. C++); added to that the Java Garbage Collector, which results in slight lag spikes. Another cause is the old code, which results in few optimizations and poor performance.
Then we get to the other aspects of bedrock edition, such as multiplat support, why wouldn't anyone want to have crossplay on more devices than just a desktop, laptop or tablet? again Java edition easily loses this category since it only runs in Windows, Linux and Mac. Accessibility of a game is important, if nobody cared about crossplay Microsoft never would've bothered with it as it wouldn't have been viable.
As a matter of fact, there exists server-side plugins to allow Bedrock Edition players to connect to Java Edition servers, and vice versa. Here is a link to those proxies: https://minecraftservers.fandom.com/wiki/Java_Edition_server_software#Protocol_Translators
Like any other comparison of two things, both Java Edition and Bedrock Edition have their advantages and disadvantages.
In conclusion:
- Java Edition can be modded too much compared to Bedrock Edition, wherein you can only do so much.
- Bedrock's smooth performance is not the only reason to consider playing in Bedrock Edition.
- Java is, and will always be, slower than Bedrock, however there exists mods to cope or compensate with the low performance of Java Edition.
- Bedrock Edition's cross-play feature shouldn't be a problem when playing with Java Edition as there exists solutions to allow Java Edition and Bedrock Edition to communicate together..
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I favour games that use hardware efficiently so players don't needlessly upgrade sooner than they should have to, adding to e waste and costing them absurd amounts of money.
There's a reason why bedrock edition exists on consoles but not Java edition. Playstation and Xbox now use x86 architecture, so it's not like the technology for Java edition to run on isn't there, Microsoft opted for porting bedrock edition on those platforms because they know that game consoles generally aren't as powerful as high end gaming desktop PC's released during that time, compromises need to be made.
It's not all about mods, you know, some people prefer having the vanilla experience because they'd rather not cheat or gain an unfair advantage over someone else. Optifine isn't a cheat, but you shouldn't have to mod your game to get the best performance either, the fact that Java edition players are often forced to do so is absurd. A game should be optimized for PC's that meet the recommended system requirements at the date of purchase, if it isn't, then there's a very good reason to blame developers for their bad coding practices, just like there is no excuse for bedrock edition to have glitches with the farlands and redstone. Being biased is not being willing to admit flaws or the facts, which is what Java edition users tend to do a lot and will go through mental gymnastics to defend their version because "muh mods"
There's a reason why bedrock edition exists on consoles but not Java edition. Playstation and Xbox now use x86 architecture, so it's not like the technology for Java edition to run on isn't there, Microsoft opted for porting bedrock edition on those platforms because they know that game consoles generally aren't as powerful as high end gaming desktop PC's released during that time, compromises need to be made.
It's not all about mods, you know, some people prefer having the vanilla experience because they'd rather not cheat or gain an unfair advantage over someone else. Optifine isn't a cheat, but you shouldn't have to mod your game to get the best performance either, the fact that Java edition players are often forced to do so is absurd. A game should be optimized for PC's that meet the recommended system requirements at the date of purchase, if it isn't, then there's a very good reason to blame developers for their bad coding practices, just like there is no excuse for bedrock edition to have glitches with the farlands and redstone. Being biased is not being willing to admit flaws or the facts, which is what Java edition users tend to do a lot and will go through mental gymnastics to defend their version because "muh mods"
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Much of Notch's bad/messy code still remains ingame and that has is huge factor for the lag we have now (as well as 1.13 basically piling on top), the devs are still optimising the game for every update, that servers stuck on 1.12 are nearly up to the point of successfully updating their version.
As of this and next update they are really busy in pushing content out as worldgen delayed many of their proposed features and they're missing deadlines. They'll optimise the game a bunch when they aren't doing extremely content heavy updates (such as 1.20 as of rn).
Also not everyone can enjoy vanilla mc for 500 hours straight. A lot of people (such as my friends) go for something different, either quitting minecraft, or playing external content like mods and servers.
If you haven't checked the minimum requirements for a while, Java now requires a mid-range PC, so for those kinds of devices, it is pretty optimised (I have barely the recommended specs and I get up to 300 fps in a normal world)
As of this and next update they are really busy in pushing content out as worldgen delayed many of their proposed features and they're missing deadlines. They'll optimise the game a bunch when they aren't doing extremely content heavy updates (such as 1.20 as of rn).
Also not everyone can enjoy vanilla mc for 500 hours straight. A lot of people (such as my friends) go for something different, either quitting minecraft, or playing external content like mods and servers.
If you haven't checked the minimum requirements for a while, Java now requires a mid-range PC, so for those kinds of devices, it is pretty optimised (I have barely the recommended specs and I get up to 300 fps in a normal world)
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You can get more performance by running a dedicated server, however it is not recommended to run the server application on the same machine as you run the client on because then you take system resources away from your game, reducing performance, hence why you use a dedicated server.
and the performance you can get out of the game also depends on the render distance you use. I'm the sort of person who likes to play with 32 chunk render distance, I get over 100+fps on a regular basis on bedrock edition with this setting, but on Java edition vanilla I get less than 60 with that setting, so no, it's not that optimized when I am getting more than double the speed for the same render distance on a different version of the game. Java edition is still the same mess it always has been, it's pathetic.
You're talking to somebody who has a Haswell i7 build with an Nvidia GTX 1660 GPU and 16gb of RAM.
And I use an SSD, despite exceeding Mojang's own recommended I still get bad performance out of Java edition,
It's not just AntVenom on Youtube who has experienced this issue.
and the performance you can get out of the game also depends on the render distance you use. I'm the sort of person who likes to play with 32 chunk render distance, I get over 100+fps on a regular basis on bedrock edition with this setting, but on Java edition vanilla I get less than 60 with that setting, so no, it's not that optimized when I am getting more than double the speed for the same render distance on a different version of the game. Java edition is still the same mess it always has been, it's pathetic.
You're talking to somebody who has a Haswell i7 build with an Nvidia GTX 1660 GPU and 16gb of RAM.
And I use an SSD, despite exceeding Mojang's own recommended I still get bad performance out of Java edition,
It's not just AntVenom on Youtube who has experienced this issue.
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First of all, it's pretty easy to get good performance if you have the right mod or specs.
Second, Optifine is not performance enhancing, at least not anymore. I would not recommend it for 1.13+.
Thirdly, Minecraft in general is a terribly optimized game running on decade old code. You can't fault a game for being behind the times if it wasn't built for the times in the first place.
Fourth, who cares about crossplay when Java has a perfectly good playerbase by itself. Not to mention a keyboard and mouse would slaughter a controller any day.
There's a reason why Bedrock players see themselves as equal to Java, yet Java pretends Bedrock doesn't exist. Java doesn't need Bedrock to exist.
Second, Optifine is not performance enhancing, at least not anymore. I would not recommend it for 1.13+.
Thirdly, Minecraft in general is a terribly optimized game running on decade old code. You can't fault a game for being behind the times if it wasn't built for the times in the first place.
Fourth, who cares about crossplay when Java has a perfectly good playerbase by itself. Not to mention a keyboard and mouse would slaughter a controller any day.
There's a reason why Bedrock players see themselves as equal to Java, yet Java pretends Bedrock doesn't exist. Java doesn't need Bedrock to exist.
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They both have their flaws.
Bedrock edition while better optimized if you play the vanilla versions, unfortunately it is also the least stable and I am not even sure why exactly that is. But sometimes redstone circuitry would misbehave, additionally, while having nothing to do with redstone, me and a friend have noticed on more than one occasion that is possible to go through terrain using Riptide tridents if there is water above them, and sometimes Ender Pearls would plant you beneath terrain which can lead to your doom inside the Nether if there happens to be lava beneath that terrain it put you in.
Unless my memory is failing me, I never noticed this problem with Ender Pearls in Java edition. Problems like this should have been relatively easy for Mojang to fix, given that they made a game as complex as this already.
It's reasonable to expect people to use mods for things like extra mobs or items, or features based on other video game characters,
However when it comes to stuff like patching severe and game breaking glitches, as well as bad performance even on a suitable gaming computer, there is a reasonable argument to be made that this is the developers responsibility, not yours, mine, or anyone else's.
Bedrock edition while better optimized if you play the vanilla versions, unfortunately it is also the least stable and I am not even sure why exactly that is. But sometimes redstone circuitry would misbehave, additionally, while having nothing to do with redstone, me and a friend have noticed on more than one occasion that is possible to go through terrain using Riptide tridents if there is water above them, and sometimes Ender Pearls would plant you beneath terrain which can lead to your doom inside the Nether if there happens to be lava beneath that terrain it put you in.
Unless my memory is failing me, I never noticed this problem with Ender Pearls in Java edition. Problems like this should have been relatively easy for Mojang to fix, given that they made a game as complex as this already.
It's reasonable to expect people to use mods for things like extra mobs or items, or features based on other video game characters,
However when it comes to stuff like patching severe and game breaking glitches, as well as bad performance even on a suitable gaming computer, there is a reasonable argument to be made that this is the developers responsibility, not yours, mine, or anyone else's.
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You are forgetting that Bedrock wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Java's success.
And here you are, trying to catch drama by diving into this mess, spitting at Java's face.
And here you are, trying to catch drama by diving into this mess, spitting at Java's face.
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There are valid reasons to criticize Java edition when it means people are unnecessarily adding to e waste and upgrading more often than they should have to just to get one game to run properly or as intended. If Minecraft had used a C++ base from the start we wouldn't be having this conversation, and people like myself wouldn't have to come on here and make threads discussing the matter in its entirety. There are clear problems that are inherent to Java edition that shouldn't be overlooked for the sake of nostalgia or just because it might upset some people.
While I am not a programmer myself, I know programmers, even mod creators who have admitted the faults of Java edition and are fully aware of the advantages bedrock edition has. It's unfortunate that bedrock edition is flawed in different ways and is the most buggy for some weird reason, and it doesn't offer the true sandbox experience Java edition does with its launcher system as of the time I'm writing this post, although that may change soon with content parity. Because of the fact that you can't choose between Minecraft versions in bedrock edition, like 1.13, 1.14, 1.15, 1.16 etc, it makes it incredibly difficult to mod, and you're also forced to deal with updates you may not like, as you know mods can become incompatible with more recent versions of the game, adding to the problem here is Minecraft bedrock edition is tied to Xbox Live, so updates are mandated because of Microsoft's policy, if you don't update your game, no online functionality, and that includes dedicated servers. This isn't entirely Mojang's fault though because Microsoft now owns the intellectual property which means it is up to them if Mojang fixes this or not.
While I am not a programmer myself, I know programmers, even mod creators who have admitted the faults of Java edition and are fully aware of the advantages bedrock edition has. It's unfortunate that bedrock edition is flawed in different ways and is the most buggy for some weird reason, and it doesn't offer the true sandbox experience Java edition does with its launcher system as of the time I'm writing this post, although that may change soon with content parity. Because of the fact that you can't choose between Minecraft versions in bedrock edition, like 1.13, 1.14, 1.15, 1.16 etc, it makes it incredibly difficult to mod, and you're also forced to deal with updates you may not like, as you know mods can become incompatible with more recent versions of the game, adding to the problem here is Minecraft bedrock edition is tied to Xbox Live, so updates are mandated because of Microsoft's policy, if you don't update your game, no online functionality, and that includes dedicated servers. This isn't entirely Mojang's fault though because Microsoft now owns the intellectual property which means it is up to them if Mojang fixes this or not.
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If Minecraft had used a C++ base from the start
Nope this is wrong. The type of language 99% does not indicate how efficiently a program runs.
A programmer can potentially remake bootleg minecraft in C++ and make it lag 5x more than Java edition. It depends on how your make your programs
The lag of Java edition is heavily attributed to Notch's bad software engineering skills and him leaving behind bad code for the new devs to fix as they go. People have been talking about his crappy skills since 2011
Bedrock Edition was built from the ground up with optimisation with mind and a bigger team, which is why it is friendlier to weaker hardware.
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well said, altho you sound a bit...biased in favor of bedrock. just a bit
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we'll see what people think of Java when content parity is finished.
if we get older versions in the official launcher of Minecraft bedrock, it'll be easier for mods to remain compatible,
since updates to the game do tend to break mods or make them incompatible, not counting texture packs or skins.
I remember the time I had with Java, and having mods or community made content not load up with Forge with a newer version of MC, wasn't a pleasant experience.
And it's much easier for developers to develop for one version of a game instead of two separate ones.
Not to mention the fact that if a company stretches out their resources too thin, it can hurt them economically,
it didn't work for Sega, hopefully Microsoft took note of this and doesn't repeat the same mistake. Nintendo was lucky to remain a viable company after the Wii U debacle. While developing for two different versions of the same game is unlikely to make a juggernaut company like Microsoft go under anytime soon, that doesn't necessarily mean it helps them, either. They've recently made attempts to simplify the process of account management with the account migration, which inches Minecraft ever closer to parity, parity does not mean one version of Minecraft, but it does mean both versions will have the same content.
www.windowscentral.com/minecraft-bedrock-edition-closer-parity-java-edition-ever
if we get older versions in the official launcher of Minecraft bedrock, it'll be easier for mods to remain compatible,
since updates to the game do tend to break mods or make them incompatible, not counting texture packs or skins.
I remember the time I had with Java, and having mods or community made content not load up with Forge with a newer version of MC, wasn't a pleasant experience.
And it's much easier for developers to develop for one version of a game instead of two separate ones.
Not to mention the fact that if a company stretches out their resources too thin, it can hurt them economically,
it didn't work for Sega, hopefully Microsoft took note of this and doesn't repeat the same mistake. Nintendo was lucky to remain a viable company after the Wii U debacle. While developing for two different versions of the same game is unlikely to make a juggernaut company like Microsoft go under anytime soon, that doesn't necessarily mean it helps them, either. They've recently made attempts to simplify the process of account management with the account migration, which inches Minecraft ever closer to parity, parity does not mean one version of Minecraft, but it does mean both versions will have the same content.
www.windowscentral.com/minecraft-bedrock-edition-closer-parity-java-edition-ever
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Ah yes. The rare console player who thinks consoles are superior to PC's
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It is called Windows 10 edition for a reason, and no, I never said consoles were superior to PC's
I stated bedrock edition is more optimized than Java edition, which is a fact, not opinion, and nostalgia doesn't change the fact that Java edition has flaws. Why is it fanboys like yourself can never admit when you're wrong?
I stated bedrock edition is more optimized than Java edition, which is a fact, not opinion, and nostalgia doesn't change the fact that Java edition has flaws. Why is it fanboys like yourself can never admit when you're wrong?
