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LeoL274
Azie
I'm just interested to find out what's the best Programming Language in your opinion. I'm a Game Programmer so I was also wondering what would be the best language to use for Game Programming?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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A lot of games are written in c++ but imo i find its syntax a bit confusing, using a lot more non alphanumerical characters. Although minecraft is written java so its possible to do it in either. You can look up the pros and cons of each and then just make up your mind.
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All three languages have the exact same operators; C++ has some ones to separate certain patterns though like pointer access.
For speed, C++. For ease of use, C#. For cross-platform/web embedding, Java.
-P
For speed, C++. For ease of use, C#. For cross-platform/web embedding, Java.
-P
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I'd suggest java because its universal and minecraft uses it so you'll be able to make mods if that's something you would like to do.
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Java is better for more graphics
Personally, I like C++ better.
And C#, haven't really tried it :/
Personally, I like C++ better.
And C#, haven't really tried it :/
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Neither is better for graphics, It's up to the programmer
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Java is pathetic. C# is pathetic.
C++ is great !... but it's just a childrends - slower version of C.
C++ is great !... but it's just a childrends - slower version of C.
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If Java is actually pathetic, then Minecraft's code is sort-of pathetic.
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Well let's just say Java isn't the best choice for game development... Minecraft was extremely hard to make, I don't know why Notch chose it...
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All large games that people love are hard to make.
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[deleted]
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how is it pathetic? "I don't know why Notch chose it" , maybe because its platform independent and if you write and compile a jar on windows u can run it on any other os along with other advantages.
c++, c, and c# are all limited to each platform they are written for so you would have to compile a version for each platform to make it work so logically for a game i do see why he chose Java, do some research before putting down a programming language
c++, c, and c# are all limited to each platform they are written for so you would have to compile a version for each platform to make it work so logically for a game i do see why he chose Java, do some research before putting down a programming language
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Minecraft's code is very pathetic. Java is a terrible language for 3D game development. Notch only chose to make Minecraft with Java because it was the language he was most combfortable. Just because Notch made a successful game.. It doesn't mean that he made a the best choice for a language to use. C++ would be much better.
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The problem with C# and with Java is that they're both interpreted hunks of programming spit.
Learn Lua, Pascal, ASM plus Lisp, Lambda and TML, and, you will be f-aaa-r better at interpreting the situations faced by 'real' programmers, and, you'll be able to produce the very best code.
Learn Lua, Pascal, ASM plus Lisp, Lambda and TML, and, you will be f-aaa-r better at interpreting the situations faced by 'real' programmers, and, you'll be able to produce the very best code.
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Lua?! Are you out of your mind? Lua is--there are just no words to describe how terrible
it is! You don't see Bill Gates using Lua, or anybody with a job, for that matter!
Anyway, here's my opinion: .NET languages are used by Microsoft, and I most of the Windows operating systems are made in c# (Assembly, too, but that's off topic). C# is also very popular with employers at the moment. I personally use C#. There are alot of good IDEs out there for it, including Visual Studio, availible at http://www.visualstudio.com/
Now onto Java. It's very nice because it has nearly the same easy syntax as C#, and portability is also nice because it works on all platforms, *BUT* a big downside to Java is: Whatever other programming languages can do in 1 line, Java can do in 10 lines. Programs in Java tend to take a lot longer to make than C# or C++ programs, and it doesn't have a built-in windows and controls and stuff. I know for a fact that C# does.
And onto C++; It's very nice if you somehow learn it. It doesn't have much alphanumeric syntax like Java and C#, but it's pretty good for making games, and almost nothing else. But there is a game engine called Unity that can make games using JavaScript and C#, but if you want to make a game from scratch, be my guest.
I really have nothing more to say, because I don't have much knowledge about C++.
(And sorry, I'm a bit biased to C# and Java)
And that's all I have to say. Just go ahead and weigh your options and decide.
it is! You don't see Bill Gates using Lua, or anybody with a job, for that matter!
Anyway, here's my opinion: .NET languages are used by Microsoft, and I most of the Windows operating systems are made in c# (Assembly, too, but that's off topic). C# is also very popular with employers at the moment. I personally use C#. There are alot of good IDEs out there for it, including Visual Studio, availible at http://www.visualstudio.com/
Now onto Java. It's very nice because it has nearly the same easy syntax as C#, and portability is also nice because it works on all platforms, *BUT* a big downside to Java is: Whatever other programming languages can do in 1 line, Java can do in 10 lines. Programs in Java tend to take a lot longer to make than C# or C++ programs, and it doesn't have a built-in windows and controls and stuff. I know for a fact that C# does.
And onto C++; It's very nice if you somehow learn it. It doesn't have much alphanumeric syntax like Java and C#, but it's pretty good for making games, and almost nothing else. But there is a game engine called Unity that can make games using JavaScript and C#, but if you want to make a game from scratch, be my guest.
I really have nothing more to say, because I don't have much knowledge about C++.
(And sorry, I'm a bit biased to C# and Java)
And that's all I have to say. Just go ahead and weigh your options and decide.
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I'm surprised with all your answers I have to say C# is the easiest to understand and is much more stable than Java but C++ is good because you can do SO much stuff with it and it was the first REAL programming language (besides C) but it's extremely confusing... C# is much more logical. I still can't decide which is better for game development...
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I am great at java, but I don't want to brag
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I mean what is this supposed to mean????!
C++
cout >> "Hello World" >> endl;
_getch();
It's like random spanish or something!
This is more logical:
C#
Console.WriteLine("Hello World");
Console.Read();
It tells the console to write "Hello World" and to read it.
Even better is this:
Java
System.out.println("Hello World");
It tells the system to print Hello World!
You can definately see the difference...
C++
cout >> "Hello World" >> endl;
_getch();
It's like random spanish or something!
This is more logical:
C#
Console.WriteLine("Hello World");
Console.Read();
It tells the console to write "Hello World" and to read it.
Even better is this:
Java
System.out.println("Hello World");
It tells the system to print Hello World!
You can definately see the difference...
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Or python:
Print("Hello World!")
Print("Hello World!")
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Let's just say if you want to learn programming learn something like Java or C# before considering learning C++...
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llDarkAssassinll-snip-
Make your own topic.
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the whole "java is bad" thing is just stupid
the new java 8 is great
no language is better then a other one
all have a specific role in which they are great
the new java 8 is great
no language is better then a other one
all have a specific role in which they are great
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Truly, what Paril said is a very good summary. I started with C++ and have begun to dive in to the amazingly huge vast of information that Java is, and it is helpful to know C++, although really knowing that isn't going to make you an instant Java programmer. Truthfully, I can barely do anything in Java. For game making, I think Java would be the best, but again, look to people more like Paril, who have much more experience.
Castle
Castle
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In my own opinion I find it much easier to code with java because C++ and C# feels like it is in a different language. I can understand them all but I prefer java.
Anyway, a great game like minecraft was made from it!
It's really everyone's own opinion
~womble23
Anyway, a great game like minecraft was made from it!
It's really everyone's own opinion
~womble23
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If you want to do Minecraft mods, use Java, but otherwise use one of the others. I'd go for C# first, since I hear it's the easiest of the 3, and then learn the others once I'm grounded, if I had the option. Java's had some pretty substantial security holes lately, so a lot of information security people have been giving it a lot of flak as a result. I definitely wouldn't make it my only language.
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DasDurielthe whole "java is bad" thing is just stupid, the new java 8 is great.
no language is better then a other one, they all have a specific niche in which they are great
I cannot agree with any-thing you said in that post.
Java has always been one of the slowest, most bloated and most limited languages.
The niche of Java is one of pedantic correctness and successful tho unintelligent-modularity.
Java 8 still uses stack machine byte-code and is more of the same.
oh and there-are ofcoarse! languages ranging from and thru every grade!
I find your response to be that of an apologetic poly-religious mediator.
sed11All large games that people love are hard to make.
As a long time games programmer i can say that's bollocks.
Take the FPS genre for example; many of the biggest hit games took almost no resources, skills or time to implement.
Counterstrike 1.6 - was simply a reskin of half-life-one. it has become a world renowned game that is still loved today. it was originally made by a small group of youth and took only a few days.
Call of Duty ( all ) - was simply a reskin of id's quake, now the worlds most profitable game franchise; it was produced without a shrapnel of code and with only the very most basic digital art-work.
Minecrart - a very basic voxel rendering algorithm running over a procedural perlin described data-set. this game utterly changed the world, it was almost entirely written by just one guy and the core engine took just a few days to write.
VaxelMinecraft's code is pathetic. C++ would be much better.
Your correct, C, Pascal, ASM or any-other kind of natively compiled language leaves Java in the dust.
checkout http://www.planetminecraft.com/project/ ... nt-461392/ for an example.
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Meh, Java still must be good if you can make a game like Minecraft with it, and it alone.
Or, at least, good for only certain types of games.
Or, at least, good for only certain types of games.
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Lua is the best. It's very flexible, and easy to learn. (And compatible with the Source engine)
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sed11Meh, Java still must be good if you can make a game like Minecraft with it.
That is a very weak line of reasoning indeed.
Within the realm of context-free grammars ( which surrounds the realm of programming languages ) there is a notion called universality or completeness.
All programming languages, including the most minimal featured esoteric feral tarpit excuses for lanugages such as Befung, False and Piet are computationally universal.
This theorem was found long ago and in essence says that no-game no-application no-algorithm and no-program is beyond the scope of any language.
There is nothing you can do with Java, which you cannot do with any-other language even when compared with the very first language, Java has no extra functionality, it can do nothing extra, nothing more.
A programmer does not select a language based on it's abilitys; or the kinds of game which the language can create ( all languages can do all things )... Instead languages are simply accepted or rejected based on statistical information...
Things like; how long will it take to program, how long will it take to run. with Java both of these values are unattractive.
Neptonic is correct; Lua appears to be a far superior language when compared to Java or C#. of-coarse like Java and C#, it's not a native language so a program at runtime written in C++ will still easily out-perform one from Lua.
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RevolutionalRedStonesed11Meh, Java still must be good if you can make a game like Minecraft with it.
That is a very weak line of reasoning indeed.
Within the realm of context-free grammars ( which surrounds the realm of programming languages ) there is a notion called universality or completeness.
All programming languages, including the most minimal featured esoteric feral tarpit excuses for lanugages such as Befung, False and Piet are computationally universal.
This theorem was found long ago and in essence says that no-game no-application no-algorithm and no-program is beyond the scope of any language.
There is nothing you can do with Java, which you cannot do with any-other language even when compared with the very first language, Java has no extra functionality, it can do nothing extra, nothing more.
A programmer does not select a language based on it's abilitys; or the kinds of game which the language can create ( all languages can do all things )... Instead languages are simply accepted or rejected based on statistical information...
Things like; how long will it take to program, how long will it take to run. with Java both of these values are unattractive.
Neptonic is correct; Lua appears to be a far superior language when compared to Java or C#. of-coarse like Java and C#, it's not a native language so a program at runtime written in C++ will still easily out-perform one from Lua.
Ok then.
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I personally prefer Java for its ease, But C++ Is better, As it is simple like java but its Syntax i find is bad, However it can do more in my opinion that java can
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Java. I hate programming in it, but stuff works best for me with java. not sure why...
oh, and minecraft is in java, so java is automatically the best.
oh, and minecraft is in java, so java is automatically the best.
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telamonianajaxJava. I hate programming in it, but stuff works best for me with java. not sure why...
ScholesyI personally prefer Java for its ease, But C++ Is better, As it is simple like java but its Syntax i find is bad
Okay, so let me get this strait.
You guys only like java... because other languages like C++ are too hard ?...
Because that's a very bad reason to select a language indeed.
I realize at school you have limited options; your classes likely only offer a small group of very dry languages ( probably something like VB, Java and C++ ) but that doesn't mean you're limited to only using those in your own time !
There are far far richer, faster better and more elegant languages to be had...
I think learning Java is a great experience for every programmer; it teaches you to work in an extremely pre-structured environment and in a very formal way. ( take for example private classes with public getters/setters )
But for a programmer to only or even most use Java !.. that would be a real shame indeed.
Java does not teach you to open your mind !, it doesn't impart on you any understanding of the world below ( Byte-code is hidden, obfuscated and essentially universal in speed... very different to native ASM )
I am certain; I would never have become 1/10th the programmer i am today if I'd exclusively programmed using Java.
The best way to learn programming is such:
1. with the aid of an engineer, design an ( unguided ) Instruction Set Architecture.
2. next, with the aid of a programmer; design a key set of programs using that I.S.A.
3. and whenever it's necessary ( and it will be necessary ) go back to step 1.
Soon you'll have a deep understanding of what programming is really all about.. not colors, sounds, keyboards and mice or there respective classes ( as java might have you believe ); but instead providing instruction for a machine.
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I only know Lua, and the fact that use can change existing textures, damage values, sounds, and animations within Gmod made it very easy for me to learn it.
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telamonianajax
oh, and minecraft is in java, so java is automatically the best.
yes.
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Java is a bad thing too use, Java is really hard to code, C++ is the best out of all of them.
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RevolutionalRedStonetelamonianajaxJava. I hate programming in it, but stuff works best for me with java. not sure why...ScholesyI personally prefer Java for its ease, But C++ Is better, As it is simple like java but its Syntax i find is bad
Okay, so let me get this strait.
You guys only like java... because other languages like C++ are too hard ?...
Because that's a very bad reason to select a language indeed.
I realize at school you have limited options; your classes likely only offer a small group of very dry languages ( probably something like VB, Java and C++ ) but that doesn't mean you're limited to only using those in your own time !
There are far far richer, faster better and more elegant languages to be had...
I think learning Java is a great experience for every programmer; it teaches you to work in an extremely pre-structured environment and in a very formal way. ( take for example private classes with public getters/setters )
But for a programmer to only or even most use Java !.. that would be a real shame indeed.
Java does not teach you to open your mind !, it doesn't impart on you any understanding of the world below ( Byte-code is hidden, obfuscated and essentially universal in speed... very different to native ASM )
I am certain; I would never have become 1/10th the programmer i am today if I'd exclusively programmed using Java.
The best way to learn programming is such:
1. with the aid of an engineer, design an ( unguided ) Instruction Set Architecture.
2. next, with the aid of a programmer; design a key set of programs using that I.S.A.
3. and whenever it's necessary ( and it will be necessary ) go back to step 1.
Soon you'll have a deep understanding of what programming is really all about.. not colors, sounds, keyboards and mice or there respective classes ( as java might have you believe ); but instead providing instruction for a machine.
You didn't get that right, Firstly I can write in Java and C++ as well as PHP, and I said I find C++ better But I prefer to write In java. Yes, I did find C++ harder to learn but They are both easy for me now, Due to the fact I know the languages. I was answering the original post to which I think is easier for beginners to learn to create games.
PS I didn't learn them In school, It was never part of our curriculum, I'm self taught.
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Technically the ''easier'' the language of programming {like javas' System.out.Println("lol") } the slower it will be, so C++ is most likely the fastest, but if you are making a non-intensive game, Java is best. (Most phone games are java!)
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I like Java, I like all of those.
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LeoL274I'm just interested to find out what's the best Programming Language in your opinion. I'm a Game Programmer so I was also wondering what would be the best language to use for Game Programming?
Thanks!
I'm old-school. Very old-school...
IMHO, real gaming languages would be "C" for the higher level gaming code,
and Assembly for CPU intensive graphics.
You youngsters are spoiled silly with these gigahertz processors and matching
memory!
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Well I really can't decide, maybe I should learn a few more languages.. I might give Lua a try!
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In my opinion, C# is better if you want a more understandable and easy mod making.
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C# is probably the best .Net language, it's quite easy to use and has massive support in terms of code-data-base and community.
However; C# is one of the .Net languages; and that is a really, really, terrible thing.
Especially if you are serious about writing useful, quality software.
The problems with C# are such:
Proprietary code - from the top down - your code is the property of Microsoft; you maynot and cannot control what comes out of their compilers ( beyond giving them initial source ) and that fact comes with a million CRUMMY side effects; including...
Having no defined hard-ware platform at-all. ( instead your programs will become OS and SP and .NET FW dependent ) - which is super annoying and extremely unprofessional.
Overhead - MS's read-old hierarchy of precompiled classes and cross linking DLLs are sure to force HEEPS of unintelligible trash into even the simplest programs you try to write.
It also suffers from the same limits in performance as all non-native code - Now I'm not going to over-step here; C# is at-least as fast as Java; but that is no huge claim, even languages from the 60's; such as Pascal absolutely dominate Java and C# in terms of sheer execution speed. ( C++ is faster )
Lua ( unlike any of these other languages ) is really great; it's open-source; it's final programs have absolutely no requirements and it has a very clean syntax as well as a truly elegant set of core data types.
I suggest you give it a try; and i totally encourage you to learn everything you can from it !
Good luck
However; C# is one of the .Net languages; and that is a really, really, terrible thing.
Especially if you are serious about writing useful, quality software.
The problems with C# are such:
Proprietary code - from the top down - your code is the property of Microsoft; you maynot and cannot control what comes out of their compilers ( beyond giving them initial source ) and that fact comes with a million CRUMMY side effects; including...
Having no defined hard-ware platform at-all. ( instead your programs will become OS and SP and .NET FW dependent ) - which is super annoying and extremely unprofessional.
Overhead - MS's read-old hierarchy of precompiled classes and cross linking DLLs are sure to force HEEPS of unintelligible trash into even the simplest programs you try to write.
It also suffers from the same limits in performance as all non-native code - Now I'm not going to over-step here; C# is at-least as fast as Java; but that is no huge claim, even languages from the 60's; such as Pascal absolutely dominate Java and C# in terms of sheer execution speed. ( C++ is faster )
Lua ( unlike any of these other languages ) is really great; it's open-source; it's final programs have absolutely no requirements and it has a very clean syntax as well as a truly elegant set of core data types.
I suggest you give it a try; and i totally encourage you to learn everything you can from it !
Good luck
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TheyCallMeDangerLeoL274I'm just interested to find out what's the best Programming Language in your opinion. I'm a Game Programmer so I was also wondering what would be the best language to use for Game Programming?
Thanks!
I'm old-school. Very old-school...
IMHO, real gaming languages would be "C" for the higher level gaming code,
and Assembly for CPU intensive graphics.
You youngsters are spoiled silly with these gigahertz processors and matching
memory!
I'm actually interested in learning FORTRAN and maybe Assembly because I've heard you can make an OS using it!
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Java is the easiest to learn IMO, but gets clunky really fast as you get into more complex programming. I'm currently learning C++ and loving it so far; I want to move on to C at some point. I've heard nothing but good about Lua, although I haven't come across many things that use it so I don't think it's as widespread as some of the other languages.
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@Leo
you don' need to use ASM to make an OS.
And trust me you do-not want to make a whole OS I've done it.
The part you want to make is called the shell; and that part can be done in any language what-so-ever.
@arachnakid
Java is certainly not easy to learn ( when compared to any other imperative language )
It's Verbose, Bloated, Overly Strict and did I mention; filled with random Java-only Keywords.
Alot of money has been poured into producing Java programmers by the bucket load ( Java teachers use learning tools such as Karol while C++ teachers do-not )
Moving from C++ to C should be strait-forward; they have identical syntax.. you just have to worry about overflows and forget about object orientation.
Lua is incredibly widely used; it features in many A class programs including Adobe light room, Apache FTP, Foldit at home, VLC media player as well as many games including World of Warcraft, G Mod and GTA.
Lua works via embedded run-times; it's not a pre-compiled language - So maybe you just don't know where to look.
you don' need to use ASM to make an OS.
And trust me you do-not want to make a whole OS I've done it.
The part you want to make is called the shell; and that part can be done in any language what-so-ever.
@arachnakid
Java is certainly not easy to learn ( when compared to any other imperative language )
It's Verbose, Bloated, Overly Strict and did I mention; filled with random Java-only Keywords.
Alot of money has been poured into producing Java programmers by the bucket load ( Java teachers use learning tools such as Karol while C++ teachers do-not )
Moving from C++ to C should be strait-forward; they have identical syntax.. you just have to worry about overflows and forget about object orientation.
Lua is incredibly widely used; it features in many A class programs including Adobe light room, Apache FTP, Foldit at home, VLC media player as well as many games including World of Warcraft, G Mod and GTA.
Lua works via embedded run-times; it's not a pre-compiled language - So maybe you just don't know where to look.
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If you already work with C++, there's no real purpose in going back to C. It's basically just more limiting than C in what you can do. C++ provides built-in methods of performing object orientation and many optimizations (inline functions, etc) that is much more difficult to do in plain C.
Lua is a nice scripting language, but it won't do much on its own.
C# is used by a lot of commercial people for desktop programs; that's where it's strength lies. Most systems already have the .NET Framework installed, and references are resolved only at runtime (there are no "static libraries" like in C/C++) so there is minimal bloat in that respect. You can produce quality programs in C# in very little time as compared to other languages. It however is not recommended to use for native gaming (OpenGL, etc) unless you use a framework specifically designed for .NET, such as the XNA Framework, which is a wonderful framework (at an end-user level; I don't know about the API).
Avoid Java. No need to go there.
-P
Lua is a nice scripting language, but it won't do much on its own.
C# is used by a lot of commercial people for desktop programs; that's where it's strength lies. Most systems already have the .NET Framework installed, and references are resolved only at runtime (there are no "static libraries" like in C/C++) so there is minimal bloat in that respect. You can produce quality programs in C# in very little time as compared to other languages. It however is not recommended to use for native gaming (OpenGL, etc) unless you use a framework specifically designed for .NET, such as the XNA Framework, which is a wonderful framework (at an end-user level; I don't know about the API).
Avoid Java. No need to go there.
-P
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@Revolutional I haven't seen someone so biased on a programming language, like you are against Java in a while. Java IS a good programming language when use correctly; it is easy enough to learn, and it is a good start for learning their first language.
Yes, C++ is a great language when it comes to creating 3D games. But C++ is harder to learn, and can easily confuse lots of beginners. As you well know Java was based off of C++. So learning C++ then Java works, but it also works the other way around. Sure learning C++ first is like doing the hard work, before doing the easy; learning Java. But IMO learning Java first will teach them the fundamentals to OOP and other skills they can use when learning other languages. And if your worried about bad habits. Let it be known learning bad habits in any programming language is a step backward, so they just need to do their research on creating clean code.
Sure, any language they pick can be learn with lots of practice. And C++ is a VERY useful language to know. But don't go on a rant about how bad Java is when it is actually a useful language. And I should think learning how to create 2D games in Java before creating any 3D game is useful. I'm sure you didn't try to read a sentence before knowing your ABC's, if you get the comparison.
Anyway, to Original Poster
1.Any languages can be learn if you practice. I personally recommend Java.
2.Choose a language your good at, don't let other peoples opinions get to you.
3.Then learn C# or C++, and continue learning more languages.
4.Find a teacher, partner, book, or online tutorials to follow with your learning.
Goodluck, Just My Opinion. Sorry for the huge reply, but more detail I suppose?
Yes, C++ is a great language when it comes to creating 3D games. But C++ is harder to learn, and can easily confuse lots of beginners. As you well know Java was based off of C++. So learning C++ then Java works, but it also works the other way around. Sure learning C++ first is like doing the hard work, before doing the easy; learning Java. But IMO learning Java first will teach them the fundamentals to OOP and other skills they can use when learning other languages. And if your worried about bad habits. Let it be known learning bad habits in any programming language is a step backward, so they just need to do their research on creating clean code.
Sure, any language they pick can be learn with lots of practice. And C++ is a VERY useful language to know. But don't go on a rant about how bad Java is when it is actually a useful language. And I should think learning how to create 2D games in Java before creating any 3D game is useful. I'm sure you didn't try to read a sentence before knowing your ABC's, if you get the comparison.
Anyway, to Original Poster
1.Any languages can be learn if you practice. I personally recommend Java.
2.Choose a language your good at, don't let other peoples opinions get to you.
3.Then learn C# or C++, and continue learning more languages.
4.Find a teacher, partner, book, or online tutorials to follow with your learning.
Goodluck, Just My Opinion. Sorry for the huge reply, but more detail I suppose?
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ParilIf you already work with C++, there's no real purpose in going back to C.
Vastly faster compilation ?
Faster and shorter binaries ?
Vastly better embedded machine compatibility ?
Also, what do you mean by Back to ? C++ might have been designed later, but it's not a replacement or a sequel to C.
Paril
C is basically just more limiting than C++ in what you can do. C++ provides built-in methods of performing object orientation and many optimizations (inline functions, etc) that is much more difficult to do in plain C.
Object orientation is faster and much more customizable when implemented in pure C.
Assembly and macro In-lining has been in C long before C++ was ever invented.
C binaries are ALWAYS shorter, ALWAYS faster.
Paril
Lua is a nice scripting language, but it won't do much on its own.
Spoken like a true outsider. obviously you've never entered the massive world of Open Languages of which Lua is a Tiny shiny Part.
http://www.planetminecraft.com/project/ ... nt-461392/
Here i implement a grammer to be called Xlua; it was direct access to everything i want; Networking, OpenGL, and it could very easily stand on it's own.
You also mentioned that C#'s ridiculous dependencys are Okay because:
Paril
Most systems already have the .NET Framework installed
What about dominant OS windows XP machines ?
What about now unsupported windows vista machines ?
What about slightly out of date windows 7 machines ?
.Net was a really, really, terrible idea, only bolstered by those with much to gain by monopolizing executable compatibility.
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Bugs_e@Revolutional I haven't seen someone so biased on a programming language, like you are against Java in a while. Java IS a good programming language when use correctly
java is a pathetic excuse for an imperative language and i am sorry that you were roped into learning it.
Bugs_e
it is easy enough to learn, and it is a good start for learning their first language.
I dare you to disprove me on any of these points.
Java is by very far the most bloated popular OO language.
Java has the worst, most cluttered, most hacky and unprofessional syntax of any language in use today.
Java turns into closed source 'byte code' which has no association with the machine it's running on.
All that says to me that it should never be tough as a first language.
Bugs_e
Yes, C++ is a great language when it comes to creating 3D games. But C++ is harder to learn, and can easily confuse lots of beginners.
I didn't say and don't think C++ is a good first language ( i actually think its terrible language when compared to something like Pascal or even just C )
Bugs_e
And if your worried about bad habits. Let it be known learning bad habits in any programming language is a step backward, so they just need to do their research on creating clean code.
Ofcoarse that's true, but Java enforces the use of bad habbits, inefficient code, over segregation and down right gibberish _aVariable.get() ?
Bugs_e
Don't go on a rant about how bad Java is when it is actually a useful language.
I can't say it's not useful, just that when compared to other languages; it's extremely poor. ( code size, coding time, executable size, executable performance ) all extremely poor.
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In the end it's all down to personal preference..
Each language serves its purpose whichever one you prefer,
as a starting language, java or c# are relativly easy, although both aren't perfect, it mainly depends on what you want to do with it.
Using c++ gives you a lot of space for ideas, but you don't always need it. My advise is too just look at a few tutorials of each one and figure out what exactly you want to do. Then make a choise between them, there is more then enough information out there.
Each language serves its purpose whichever one you prefer,
as a starting language, java or c# are relativly easy, although both aren't perfect, it mainly depends on what you want to do with it.
Using c++ gives you a lot of space for ideas, but you don't always need it. My advise is too just look at a few tutorials of each one and figure out what exactly you want to do. Then make a choise between them, there is more then enough information out there.
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