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Should Servers Follow the Minecraft EULA
So recently, someone posted a question asking whether they're server ranks were fairly priced, and after two days the whole thread turned into an argument over the EULA.
My question/discussion:
do you think servers should follow the EULA, why or why not?
Just looking for opinions.
I'd love if someone could send me a fairly detailed article about the EULA. I'd be glad to add you to the original post here.
If anyone doesn't undertsand, the EULA can be found here https://account.mojang.com/documents/minecraft_eula, and more information here https://mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation-the-follow-up-qa/
My question/discussion:
do you think servers should follow the EULA, why or why not?
Just looking for opinions.
I'd love if someone could send me a fairly detailed article about the EULA. I'd be glad to add you to the original post here.
If anyone doesn't undertsand, the EULA can be found here https://account.mojang.com/documents/minecraft_eula, and more information here https://mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation-the-follow-up-qa/
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well...it's a law...the people who made the game don't want you using it in a certain way...so...why shouldn't you follow the one thing they ask you to follow?
I personally shouldn't really say "don't care". It's more like I want to wait for the dust to settle, and for everything to be clear. I feel that answering this poll would be jumping to a conclusion. I want everything to stabilise and be calm, so that the lawyers can settle things.
Also, it's no longer the matter of a game. It's the matter of a cult. The matter of the lives of many people. The matter of a giant community of communities. Hundreds of thousands are at stake, maybe even over a million or several million. The move being played in this game is so much bigger due to its popularity and significance everywhere.
Also, it's no longer the matter of a game. It's the matter of a cult. The matter of the lives of many people. The matter of a giant community of communities. Hundreds of thousands are at stake, maybe even over a million or several million. The move being played in this game is so much bigger due to its popularity and significance everywhere.
wut
your profile picture and that statement.
Do you agree that people who live off the money they make by illegal means should continue to do so? Or would you rather they make money by legal and legitimate means. Because that's all the EULA boils down to. Do you want to break the law, or do you not want to.
But the thing is, the people don't live off the illigeal money, commonly it's just a means to pay for something for the community because they don't have enough money to do so themselves.
meh. Mojang lost too many court cases.
I stand by my case that I got from a friend.
I stand by my case that I got from a friend.
Not this again.
(My opinion)
I Don't care about how much people pay to get ranks. what i'm concerned about is the rewards. i played minecraft since january 2011 it was good back then,(not much difference from today's minecraft)
servers were like communites without ranks which make people stand over each other
man it was great.
the problem today is that servers make people OP if they pay money.
seriously is this a pay 2 win?
(don't reply saying "This isn't a game so it's not considered p2w because it starts with players and ends with a victor(s) and with an end goal, it means it is a game)
one example that bothered me is that when i used to play a tf2 plugin on a server, it was fun before they added a spy class(which can stay invisible the whole time and kills within one click) while others had to hit 12+ times.
and if you donate (pay) you get that class.
Just please, server owners. don't turn minecraft servers into a pay to win. it will be unfair for people who didn't donate. they might not have the money to donate so they couldn't.
Server owners now. you might say that "Server owners wont have money to host servers!!!11" Calm down. the reason server owners wont have money is that they tend to start big, they want to be the next mineplex and host an insanely expensive server with the idea to get the community to pay for them to host the server.
i suggest server owners start small and once they receive a decent flow of donations they grow their network. Not going crazy at first and hosting all the slots you want.
this is the reason i don't play minecraft anymore :/
(My opinion)
I Don't care about how much people pay to get ranks. what i'm concerned about is the rewards. i played minecraft since january 2011 it was good back then,(not much difference from today's minecraft)
servers were like communites without ranks which make people stand over each other
man it was great.
the problem today is that servers make people OP if they pay money.
seriously is this a pay 2 win?
(don't reply saying "This isn't a game so it's not considered p2w because it starts with players and ends with a victor(s) and with an end goal, it means it is a game)
one example that bothered me is that when i used to play a tf2 plugin on a server, it was fun before they added a spy class(which can stay invisible the whole time and kills within one click) while others had to hit 12+ times.
and if you donate (pay) you get that class.
Just please, server owners. don't turn minecraft servers into a pay to win. it will be unfair for people who didn't donate. they might not have the money to donate so they couldn't.
Server owners now. you might say that "Server owners wont have money to host servers!!!11" Calm down. the reason server owners wont have money is that they tend to start big, they want to be the next mineplex and host an insanely expensive server with the idea to get the community to pay for them to host the server.
i suggest server owners start small and once they receive a decent flow of donations they grow their network. Not going crazy at first and hosting all the slots you want.
this is the reason i don't play minecraft anymore :/
People should follow it. You can't just break the law because you don't have enough money :/
Right! Would you rob a bank because you didn't have enough money? This is the same situation, except you're robbing a corporation f their money.
Honestly, yes, they should. Microsoft now has the resources to pursue those that don't follow them, but the worst they can do is send a "Cease and Desist" which, the server owners would laugh at. Soon, Microsoft am pursue legal action after a while, but I think that Microsoft is letting it happen, is because it is costly to pursue this.
Honestly, yes, they should. Microsoft now has the resources to pursue those that don't follow them, but the worst they can do is send a "Cease and Desist" which, the server owners would laugh at. Soon, Microsoft am pursue legal action after a while, but I think that Microsoft is letting it happen, is because it is costly to pursue this.
On the pay to win side; I absolutely hate that. Having to buy stuff to get perms? For a game? With $20 you essentially get everything in MC; servers that make donations often end up taking stuff that could make a member's experience better and locking them up. Things like having sethome as doner only are what make me automatically qualify a server as bad.
On the same note, buying staff can literally mean you are letting 10 year olds having a free grief pass. It's stupid. Staff should get staff on merit, not credit card. Having it as a prerequisite sounds like a money grabbing tactic and essentially makes you buy the rank, which goes back to above, while locking out potentially good staff members that just can't do the doner portion.
I've found that a lot of servers like to shove donation in your face as well - constant messages, having features that say you don't have permission because it's doner only, etc. That turns me off of a server permanantly. It doesn't always break the EULA, but it is obnoxious nonetheless.
Regardless of these opinions, Mojang just doesn't have the authority to stop this practice any more than they can stop cracked players. It's a matter of integrity in the end, or how much you take stock in the game's developers.
On the same note, buying staff can literally mean you are letting 10 year olds having a free grief pass. It's stupid. Staff should get staff on merit, not credit card. Having it as a prerequisite sounds like a money grabbing tactic and essentially makes you buy the rank, which goes back to above, while locking out potentially good staff members that just can't do the doner portion.
I've found that a lot of servers like to shove donation in your face as well - constant messages, having features that say you don't have permission because it's doner only, etc. That turns me off of a server permanantly. It doesn't always break the EULA, but it is obnoxious nonetheless.
Regardless of these opinions, Mojang just doesn't have the authority to stop this practice any more than they can stop cracked players. It's a matter of integrity in the end, or how much you take stock in the game's developers.
Its not should be follow it, its people must follow it. The law is the law, and any server who is breaking the law with the minecraft eula should be shut down, and possibly face more repercussions depending on the amount of sales made with those perks.
The problem with calling it law is like some other laws in history that have been put in place, blatently ignored, and never acted upon. There needs to be authority behind it for it to succeed on such an established practice.
You not having enough money to survive can be a much different scenario than being too cheap or not having enough money to buy a video game.
Kirito SwordsmanRight! Would you rob a bank because you didn't have enough money? This is the same situation, except you're robbing a corporation f their money.
You not having enough money to survive can be a much different scenario than being too cheap or not having enough money to buy a video game.
And yes, I understand eh EULA was made before the Microsoft Purchase, but it's now Microsoft's problem.
I don't know what a EULA is
You know, I kind of thought we were done with these kind of post's
Is it really that painful to see? Yeah, it's nice to have some peacetime for a while, but I never really saw an ending to this. Let's just keep the flames down, and trouble won't stir up.
And besides, wonder how all our opinions are like after all these months of silence.
And besides, wonder how all our opinions are like after all these months of silence.
yes
Every single serve still accepting "donations" for ranks is breaking the EULA, so...
Hm? no it is not. You may accept donations to give a rank that only adds cosmetic perks.
This whole thing to pay for ranks is ruining Minecraft's servers...
The problem is that server owners can't really offer much else in exchange for donations. Sure, we can ask users to truly donate, without any form of reward, but (1) we'd feel bad, or at least be super stressed trying to make the server perfect to be worthy of the donations, and (2) we wouldn't get that many donators.
Technically, the theory of just selling things is kinda innocent. I personally think it's okay to sell ranks and stuff, but depends on what perks they give. I've never seen anybody do this before, but it'd be awesome if there were elements and you could pay something like $4 to change your character from a normal one to an ice-based one. And be able to wear ice armor and wield ice weapons. It wouldn't be stronger than normal weps, but they'd look kewl. Kinda like aesthetics, except it's okay to just add a tiny bit of extra damage or something...or add elemental weaknesses...
Regardless, that theory was utilised and blown out of proportion, so now people are paying exorbitant amounts of money for overpowered ranks that let you thrash anybody who didn't pay. If not, it'll still create a sense of superiority amongst the "paying users", nevertheless.
The real problem is, what are we going to sell, other than ranks, perks or in-game money? There's not much, when it comes to Minecraft, unless somebody manages to create a system where you can pay to use a mod in a server (like, the mods are already there, just that no perms are given to normal players). It'd kinda be like selling DLC in that case, and wouldn't that be nice? It would just give something like a crafting and building advantage.
I'm surprised nobody has made a system where you can pay 50 cents to get a strong sword that you can't craft, though. I'd love to do a system like that; sell personal, reliable tool kits (that you can't make normally) for 50 cents each. That's something many people can afford (i.e. not a greedy rip-off), something that won't really give that much of an advantage, and at the end of the day, won't affect the server that much, as opposed to selling perks and ranks.
*EDIT* *cough* Back on topic, at its current state, it's ruining Minecraft's servers, yes. And that is why I believe they updated the EULA to clearly disallow this practice. If we had better donation practices, I'm sure they'd continue to turn the other cheek. Regardless, the reason why people are so defensive about donations in the first place is because they're hosting servers without the capability to actually support them. Donationless means death. smh
(Yes, my servers ran on a free 128mb-of-RAM VPS. We lived just fine. I refused all donations. Even my family scolded me for not accepting donations. I secretly scoff at their lack of ethics)
Technically, the theory of just selling things is kinda innocent. I personally think it's okay to sell ranks and stuff, but depends on what perks they give. I've never seen anybody do this before, but it'd be awesome if there were elements and you could pay something like $4 to change your character from a normal one to an ice-based one. And be able to wear ice armor and wield ice weapons. It wouldn't be stronger than normal weps, but they'd look kewl. Kinda like aesthetics, except it's okay to just add a tiny bit of extra damage or something...or add elemental weaknesses...
Regardless, that theory was utilised and blown out of proportion, so now people are paying exorbitant amounts of money for overpowered ranks that let you thrash anybody who didn't pay. If not, it'll still create a sense of superiority amongst the "paying users", nevertheless.
The real problem is, what are we going to sell, other than ranks, perks or in-game money? There's not much, when it comes to Minecraft, unless somebody manages to create a system where you can pay to use a mod in a server (like, the mods are already there, just that no perms are given to normal players). It'd kinda be like selling DLC in that case, and wouldn't that be nice? It would just give something like a crafting and building advantage.
I'm surprised nobody has made a system where you can pay 50 cents to get a strong sword that you can't craft, though. I'd love to do a system like that; sell personal, reliable tool kits (that you can't make normally) for 50 cents each. That's something many people can afford (i.e. not a greedy rip-off), something that won't really give that much of an advantage, and at the end of the day, won't affect the server that much, as opposed to selling perks and ranks.
*EDIT* *cough* Back on topic, at its current state, it's ruining Minecraft's servers, yes. And that is why I believe they updated the EULA to clearly disallow this practice. If we had better donation practices, I'm sure they'd continue to turn the other cheek. Regardless, the reason why people are so defensive about donations in the first place is because they're hosting servers without the capability to actually support them. Donationless means death. smh
(Yes, my servers ran on a free 128mb-of-RAM VPS. We lived just fine. I refused all donations. Even my family scolded me for not accepting donations. I secretly scoff at their lack of ethics)
SnowyfoxI'm surprised nobody has made a system where you can pay 50 cents to get a strong sword that you can't craft, though. I'd love to do a system like that; sell personal, reliable tool kits (that you can't make normally) for 50 cents each. That's something many people can afford (i.e. not a greedy rip-off), something that won't really give that much of an advantage, and at the end of the day, won't affect the server that much, as opposed to selling perks and ranks.
not so surprising if you look at paypal rates for example
and someone with neither paypal nor credit card, like me, couldn"t use such an option even if it were offered
for such a plugin to make sense you"d need to use bitcoin (or something based on it like dash, nxt, monero,...), which has transaction fees that are fractions of a cent, but unfortunately isn"t spread widely yet
whats a EULA?
Basically the EULA is a law made by Mojang that says you cannot sell ranks or perks for real money. You can only get them by in-game points. Unfortunately, 95% of servers do not follow these rules, thus breaking the law.
He asked what's A EULA, not THE EULA. lel.
@Pugster +-+
RedshirtMiner's answer applies to Minecraft's EULA specifically.
If you mean what's a EULA in general, it's an acronym for "End User License Agreement", something that you sign (e.g. click a checkbox to indicate that you have read and agreed to it (see Terms and Conditions)) to indicate that you agree with all of the terms in the agreement, all of which are related to the game, such as the way you use it and the way you distribute it.
The reason why it's named so is because it is an agreement signed by the end user (a.k.a. customer a.k.a. player a.k.a. you) in terms of the licensing of the product (which in this case is Minecraft). Like many other stuff, you can't do it or use it without a license. Breaking this EULA usually means your license is immediately and legally revoked (this is usually stated in the EULA itself).
@Pugster +-+
RedshirtMiner's answer applies to Minecraft's EULA specifically.
If you mean what's a EULA in general, it's an acronym for "End User License Agreement", something that you sign (e.g. click a checkbox to indicate that you have read and agreed to it (see Terms and Conditions)) to indicate that you agree with all of the terms in the agreement, all of which are related to the game, such as the way you use it and the way you distribute it.
The reason why it's named so is because it is an agreement signed by the end user (a.k.a. customer a.k.a. player a.k.a. you) in terms of the licensing of the product (which in this case is Minecraft). Like many other stuff, you can't do it or use it without a license. Breaking this EULA usually means your license is immediately and legally revoked (this is usually stated in the EULA itself).
The eula wasn't made by mojang. mojang has it's own eula.
There are alot of other companies with their own eula's before mojang wrote their own.
Oh the irony.
There are alot of other companies with their own eula's before mojang wrote their own.
Oh the irony.
I know that! I thought he ment Mojang's EULA.
In my opinion, it should be followed always, and under no circumstances broken. Even if Mojang is too lazy to enforce it, its their game, and its the rules they want you to follow, so why shouldn't it be followed?
How are server owners expected to pay for their hosting? Owners put in work to their servers and if they are loosing money and wasting time they can't run a server.
Also Mojang isn't loosing any money, it's not like we are stealing money from their vault...
Also Mojang isn't loosing any money, it's not like we are stealing money from their vault...
Someone doesn't go into server-ing to make everything from the server with donations. Sell cosmetic things. Most server owners put little work into their servers. You're selling their work, so yes, they technically are losing money/you're taking their stuff and selling it. Would you like it if I came into your house, took something, then went and sold it to someone else? I don't think so.
Servers aren't a business. It was turned into one. You shouldn't go into this kind of thing without a job to pay for it. It's like asking why a streamer should be expected to pay for their computer - they should be prepared to pay into the things they need to stream.
If they get a big enough following, they can then start making money in the proper manner. There are tons of ways you can make money with the EULA being followed, you've just got to be smart and business-savvy. Would you trust a non-business-savvy owner with your money?
If they get a big enough following, they can then start making money in the proper manner. There are tons of ways you can make money with the EULA being followed, you've just got to be smart and business-savvy. Would you trust a non-business-savvy owner with your money?
this.
^^ this.
Minecraft server hosting is a hobby. It's a choice. If you can't support any costs you need, then don't do it. If your server is so large that you need to start paying significant amounts for it, then make sure you get a job first. Eventually getting money would be a nice side-effect, but it should never be your goal, nor should it be something you rely on.
Minecraft server hosting is a hobby. It's a choice. If you can't support any costs you need, then don't do it. If your server is so large that you need to start paying significant amounts for it, then make sure you get a job first. Eventually getting money would be a nice side-effect, but it should never be your goal, nor should it be something you rely on.
One thing server owners should have in mind, don't try to make a gigantic server without any money to back it up, then when you don't get enough donations you complain against Mojang's EULA.
start small with small slots, when you get constant donations grow larger
if your server is worthy and fun people will donate, if you do this and don't get enough
donations the reason is your server might be unoriginal.
start small with small slots, when you get constant donations grow larger
if your server is worthy and fun people will donate, if you do this and don't get enough
donations the reason is your server might be unoriginal.
Its not that you cant make money with your server, it is just a little bit harder
I agree with a lot of the people here.
The EULA is the law, and just because you don't like it, doesn't give you the right to break it. It's Mojang's game (although I guess it's Microsoft's now), so if they feel you shouldn't be able to sell OP ranks and items, then so what?
If you're going to own a server, make sure you have enough money to pay for it first. Any donations made should be put towards the server and its community, yes, but they shouldn't be what the server relies on.
It is kind of sad that servers used to not have paid ranks, but nowadays, you have to pay on most servers just to get basic functions...
Anyways, that's just my two cents.
The EULA is the law, and just because you don't like it, doesn't give you the right to break it. It's Mojang's game (although I guess it's Microsoft's now), so if they feel you shouldn't be able to sell OP ranks and items, then so what?
If you're going to own a server, make sure you have enough money to pay for it first. Any donations made should be put towards the server and its community, yes, but they shouldn't be what the server relies on.
It is kind of sad that servers used to not have paid ranks, but nowadays, you have to pay on most servers just to get basic functions...
Anyways, that's just my two cents.
I agree, but my server does rely somewhat on donations. We can pay for it with about $2 in donations a month, and we easily get more as we have a great community and everyone knows everyone etc.
To be honest, I don't really considering that relying on donations (unless you're saying that your server only costs $2). $2 is pocket change, stuff you find in between the couch cushions in your house, or in your car's center compartment.
It costs $6/month, but me being a lazy 13 year old, relies on what I can scrape up, what my friends can and the donations we can receive. We don't offer perks with the donations (we're smi-vinalla anyway), but we are barely able to pay the monthly bill for the server.
OK let me put this whole thing into terms. This is basically saying that it is ok to go get citizenship in another country and not follow the laws. Now would you do that? Think about it. Mojang has every right to suspend or delete your account, and the maybe even ban your ip from another account.
Did anyone say it was okay to break the law?
People have opinions, and we should respect that.
I for one believe that the EULA is fair, even if 95% of serves just ignore it.
People have opinions, and we should respect that.
I for one believe that the EULA is fair, even if 95% of serves just ignore it.
Ok alright. Server owners are breaking Mojang's law. Mojang has rules or laws like most places, and you should follow them if you play the game. Sorry dev if i didn't make that connection
Mojang would definitely sue a large server that's in violation.
But its a law, a law designed to help players like you and me not have to spend money on a game we have already spent $30 on.
But its a law, a law designed to help players like you and me not have to spend money on a game we have already spent $30 on.
Mineplex?
Any other large server?
Any other large server?
Look, I see the EULA as allowing purchases, even items, as long as they do not give an unfair advantage. So if ranks are purchasable by other means than any sort of money transfer, then they are allowed.
-[C4]-Look, I see the EULA as allowing purchases, even items, as long as they do not give an unfair advantage. So if ranks are purchasable by other means than any sort of money transfer, then they are allowed.
No they are technically not, because allowing you to pay for them makes it easier for you to get them than for the people getting them by other means.
It's a law. Laws are there for a reason.
There are plenty of states in the US where marrying people of the same gender is forbidden by law, and there are probably numerous countries out there where speaking ill of the local dictator is illegal as well. Just because a rule is defined and enforced by the state (aka a law) does not make it right by definition. All laws and rules should be under constant scrutiny from every person that has to live under it.
If every modern-day christian lived under the laws of the bible, the world would be a very different place. some things would be worse, and some things would be better.
Many of those rules became ignored simply because they no longer applied.
For instance, it used to be practically illegal to have sex before marriage (not a juridical law but a social and religious one), for the simple reason that if the girl became pregnant, there was nothing to stop the guy running off and abandoning her to a society where girls could not sustain themselves as well as a young child.
However, in the modern age there are plenty of prevention techniques as well as numerous funds (at least in many western european countries) to make even the life of a single mother quite livable. This does not mean a man that runs off after his woman got pregnant isn't guilty of abandoning her, but the social rule no longer needs to be enforced as strictly (and obviously isnt).
In case you don't want to read the book I wrote up there, Im basically saying laws are just rules made by the state and should never be taken for granted, despite most of them making sense.
If every modern-day christian lived under the laws of the bible, the world would be a very different place. some things would be worse, and some things would be better.
Many of those rules became ignored simply because they no longer applied.
For instance, it used to be practically illegal to have sex before marriage (not a juridical law but a social and religious one), for the simple reason that if the girl became pregnant, there was nothing to stop the guy running off and abandoning her to a society where girls could not sustain themselves as well as a young child.
However, in the modern age there are plenty of prevention techniques as well as numerous funds (at least in many western european countries) to make even the life of a single mother quite livable. This does not mean a man that runs off after his woman got pregnant isn't guilty of abandoning her, but the social rule no longer needs to be enforced as strictly (and obviously isnt).
In case you don't want to read the book I wrote up there, Im basically saying laws are just rules made by the state and should never be taken for granted, despite most of them making sense.
People saying "Mojang and Microsoft doesn't care about the EULA" are all wrong. So just because someone isn't there to enforce the rules, they aren't in place? It's like robbing a bank in a town without police thinking its legal.
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